Go Back   Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community > Pizza Oven Design and Installation > Getting Started

Like Tree2Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:05 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 397
Question Mineral Wool/RockWool

Hello All,

It was hard to find, but I finally found mineral wool batts in a variety of thicknesses. It is available from an insulation contractor in Phoenix, Arizona. It comes in 4lb and 8lb density. I plan to use the 2" thick batts since it will be easier to form over the igloo dome, I'll use two layers. That should allow me to smooth out lumps before covering with chicken wire mesh. I take it from comments made on the forum that the 8 lb density is the best choice. Correct?

The oven manufacturer recommends a layer of insulating refractory concrete over the precast oven panels. They supplied four bags with the kit. I want to cover the insulating concrete with 4" mineral wool then a layer of vermiculite concrete mix. Then a layer of stucco, then paint as a weatherproof barrier. Is this sequence reasonable? Any recommendations before I begin casting insulating concrete for the hearth firebricks? Construction should go fast after the hearth is laid since the oven panels are precast in sections.

By the way, I contacted the oven manufacturer with questions on finishing the oven beyond the initial layer of insulating refractory concrete and was informed that the company is in the business of casting the parts and wouldn't recommend a finishing sequence. "Contact a mason". I've already exceeded my oven budget so won't be hiring a mason. I hope to get some ideas from forum members.

Cheers,
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2010, 06:37 AM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 423
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

Hey azpizzanut - which contractor has the mineral wool? my normal supplier dried up.

CW
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2010, 07:58 AM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 397
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

Border Construction specialties.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2010, 08:42 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,156
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

The lower density, 4lb, should provide a greater R-Value but less support for the Vermicrete. I tried to look up the R-Value difference, but didn't imediately find it. Your vendor will be able to tell you this. The lower density should also be a bit easier to form, less material, more air, it should more flexable everything being the same.



Chris

PS I've rooted around the net and don't find Density / R-Values. Ask your evndor and please let us know what you find. Thanks!

Last edited by SCChris; 09-19-2010 at 08:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2010, 09:39 AM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Glendale, Arizona
Posts: 397
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

Thank you, SCChris.

Less support? Yes, I see your point. Maybe use a heavier 2" chicken wire mesh or possibly a 1" chicken wire and two layers of rock wool, each held with the wire. I don't mind doing the extra work. Is there something other than hexagonal wire to hold rock wool?

I was able to find R value information for rock wool vs fiberglass. They are about the same except rock wool ,being denser per cu ft, is the better barrier to sound. One site gave the value of 2.5lb density rock wool as R-3.7 per inch thickness and R-3.9 per inch for 4lb density. If we extrapolate, then the 8lb density would have even higher R value, though not twice that of 4lb.

Only one manufacturer uses a liquid ablative to coat their rock wool product. The others do not, according to a website. I've learned a lot about rock wool in the past ten minutes thanks to Google.

Cheers,
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,156
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

I don't know that support for the vermicrete would be a problem at all. Many of those making igloo style ovens are running the vermicrete right over the ceramic fiber blankets and this would have much less support for this layer. Best to you!

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:35 AM
Storm Runner's Avatar
Serf
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

Quote:
Originally Posted by azpizzanut View Post
Thank you, SCChris.

I was able to find R value information for rock wool vs fiberglass. They are about the same except rock wool ,being denser per cu ft, is the better barrier to sound. One site gave the value of 2.5lb density rock wool as R-3.7 per inch thickness and R-3.9 per inch for 4lb density. If we extrapolate, then the 8lb density would have even higher R value, though not twice that of 4lb.

Cheers,
I was looking around and found that the R-Values of the fiberglass and the Rock Wool are about the same, with the Fiberglass being a bit higher per inch. 0.5 at most

The main difference between the two is the melting point with fiberglass melting at a considerably lower temp and ceramic having a much higher melting point.

Material Temperature
Glass wool 230 - 250 C (445-480 F)
Stone wool 700 - 850 C (1290-1560 F)
Ceramic fibre wool 1200 C (2190 F)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-17-2010, 12:44 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 423
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

Nice thing about the vermicrete is that it is fairly light, so should not compress the insulation unless you press down.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-17-2010, 04:49 PM
Lburou's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DFW area, USA
Posts: 1,110
Question Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

When I was young rock wool was available as loose fill, much like vermiculite is today. Is it still available in that form today? In that form, it should be easily adaptable to our WFO projects.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-17-2010, 05:08 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 423
Default Re: Mineral Wool/RockWool

I have nto seen it in the loose form, though if you get ahold of the company mining and processing it, I bet you could get it as loose fill!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mineral Wool Insulation martywatts Tools, Tips and Techniques 3 11-16-2009 07:09 AM
Blanket Insulation altamont Pompeii Oven Construction 12 10-01-2009 08:09 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC