{"id":3142,"date":"2016-08-16T01:16:30","date_gmt":"2016-08-16T05:16:30","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.fornobravo.com\/pizzaquest\/?p=3142"},"modified":"2016-08-17T07:01:48","modified_gmt":"2016-08-17T11:01:48","slug":"interview-with-daniel-young","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.fornobravo.com\/pizzaquest\/interview-with-daniel-young\/","title":{"rendered":"“Where to Eat Pizza,” an Interview with Daniel Young"},"content":{"rendered":"

Note from Peter: A few months ago I got to be a judge at the Caputo Cup Pizza Championship i<\/em>n NYC (we’ve already posted a few pieces on this event), where I met fellow judge and noted journalist Daniel Young. What I didn’t know until we met was that he was about to release a major book, Where to Eat Pizza,<\/em> featuring about 1,700 of the best pizzerias in the world. This is big news for pizza freaks like us, obviously, so I asked Daniel if he’d let me interview him here for our followers and he graciously agreed. You’ll find links to the book and to Daniel’s website, Young and Foodish<\/em> (great title, don’t you think?), at the end. This is one of those books that I’m sure most of you will want to own so, without further ado, here’s our conversation:\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"(c)<\/a>

(c) 2016 Luciano Furia
www.lucianofuria.com<\/p><\/div>\n

–Peter:\u00a0 Daniel, congratulations on this enormous achievement! Have you recovered yet from all the tasting you must have done, and can you tell our viewers a little about yourself and your love affair with pizza?<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

Daniel:<\/strong> I live in London but I was born and raised in New York. Pizza was my first solid food. I have zero recollection of any time in my life when I was not loving pizza, when I was not yearning for it. Even when I was a food critic and then restaurant critic of the New York Daily News, pizza remained an obsession. I believe I was the first newspaper critic to write about such classic New York pizza spots as Rizzo\u2019s, Sam\u2019s, Deninos, Nunzio\u2019s, L&B Spumoni Gardens<\/em> and Delmar<\/em>. From the age of 7 my father would take us to Luigino\u2019s\u00a0Pizzeria\u00a0alla\u00a0Napoletana<\/em>, a popular celebrity haunt on the block of 48th<\/sup> Street with all the musical instrument shops. Every inch of wall\u00a0space was covered with signed photos of Broadway, Tin Pan Alley stars and Italian singers, from Caruso to Sinatra. What I remember most are the big black bubbles in the crust and the drippy, molten mozzarella that would burn the roof of my mouth. I\u2019ve never eaten a better pizza. Of course my late father being at the table has lots to do with that. I loved loving pizza\u00a0with him.<\/p>\n

–Peter: So, really, how many pizzerias were checked out in order to arrive at the 1,705 that made the cut and how many contributors and reviewers did you need to cover this much ground?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Daniel:<\/strong> Most nominations were based on pre-existing knowledge about the local or regional pizza scene. But when I or another regional expert heard about a promising opening or discovery we made sure it was checked out. When Standard<\/em> opened in Berlin, not a great pizza city, I was alerted to it by Torsten Goffen, the regional expert for Cologne. I, in turn, notified Luisa Weiss, the regional expert for Berlin. And then Malin Elmlid, one of her valued contributors, tried Standard<\/em> and praised its simplicity, high-quality ingredients, so it made the cut.<\/p>\n

For the guide I personally recruited 121 regional experts, a task which itself nearly killed me. Less then 10 of them were pre-existing friends or acquaintances. I was seeking not just knowledgeable critics with a special appreciation and passion for pizza but also great food people with a trusted network of key contacts. These regional experts tracked down 956 pizza informants in 48 countries. Together we nominated the 1,705 pizza places in the guide.<\/p>\n

Yet, even with those impressive numbers we admittedly missed more than a few world-class pizzerias. I hope readers will forgive us, will forgive me. I did my best. I am very proud of what we\u2019ve accomplished.\"intro<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

–P: Can you give us a quick demographic breakdown of the countries represented in the book and where you found the highest concentration of great pizzerias?<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

D:<\/strong> We covered nearly every place you can think of \u2013 Russia, Slovenia, Kuwait, Panama, Mexico, Vietnam.<\/p>\n

I wouldn\u2019t say there is great pizza everywhere, but there can be great pizza anywhere. It only takes one geek determined to learn from the best, lock up in a basement kitchen for months and not see the light of day until he or she has perfected his\/her dough. Within this trend comes the spirit of one-upmanship. Just when you thought someone has done the best pizza ever another geek does it better.<\/p>\n

In London the highest form of praise for a chef, baker or food professional is \u201cend of\u201d<\/em> \u2013 end of story, you can\u2019t do better, this is the best, there\u2019s no use trying. End of. Sorry, but there is no longer any such thing as \u201cend of\u201d. We live in the age of \u201cbeginning of\u201d<\/em> \u2013 nothing is perfect, nothing is ideal, everything can be improved upon. There are kids who think they can do better, who know they can do better. And a few of them will succeed. That\u2019s what\u2019s so great about the millenials. Many of us ridicule overused buzzwords like \u201cartisanal\u201d or \u201ccraft.\u201d But if these terms reflect this determination to devote oneself to one thing and do it better than anyone I applaud them. I heart artisanal.<\/p>\n

In \u201cSmall-Batch Pizza in Small Town USA\u201d<\/em>, one the 13 essays I wrote for Where To Eat Pizza,<\/strong><\/em> I featured two such determined pizza geeks, Caleb Schiff of Pizzicletta<\/em> in Falstaff Arizona, and David Bauer of All Souls Pizza<\/em> in Asheville, North Carolina. Both are passionate about their craft but don\u2019t always follow the rule book, at least not the Neapolitan rule book:<\/p>\n

\u201cI really hate VPN shit,\u201d says Schiff, regarding the strict guidelines dictated by the Vera Pizza Napoletana<\/em> association. \u201cWhen I say I want our pizza to be distinctive I am saying that if you saw a picture of our pizzas you\u2019d know it was Pizzacletta<\/em>. The pizza we are making is entirely our own.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cIf there was a founder of Neapolitan pizza, a Jesus figure,\u201d says Bauer, a champion of local wheat, meats and produce, \u201che would probably just work with whatever was around him.\u201d<\/p>\n

The highest concentration of \u201cgreat\u201d pizzerias is in the USA, Japan, Brazil, Argentina and of course Italy. In most areas of Italy, however, it\u2019s easier to find a mediocre pizza than a really good one. If you’re traveling in Italy you cannot trust your pizzadar<\/em> (pizza radar). You really need Where To Eat Pizza.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\"italy<\/a>Here, Peter, I need to address the meaning of \u201cgreat\u201d:<\/p>\n

First, there is the question of authenticity<\/em>. I identify and respect three notions of authenticity in pizza:<\/p>\n

1) Pizza that\u2019s true to its origins, namely Naples.<\/p>\n

2) Pizza that\u2019s true to what you grew up with, what you ate with your mom and dad, that evokes great memories. This could be in New York, Rome, Buenos Aires, Sao Paolo, Detroit \u2013 all areas of the world with a distinct regional pizza culture.<\/p>\n

3) Pizza that\u2019s true to the vision of the pizza maker.<\/p>\n

Naples is not the best because soft-crust is better than crispy, or uncooked passata<\/em> is better than a pre-made pizza sauce. Naples is the pizza capital of the world \u2013 and in Where To Eat Pizza<\/em> <\/strong>\u2013 it\u2019s the only place where all three notions of authenticity are represented.<\/p>\n

Be that as it may, a third-generation neighborhood pizzeria in Naples is not automatically superior, more important, or somehow more valid than a fashionable pizza place in West Hollywood. This is sentimental sauce: The Italian food blog\/online magazine dissapore.com<\/em> <\/strong>trashed the book and, more specifically, me, for singling out Pizzeria Mozza<\/em> as one of the best pizza places in the world. But as our great friend John Arena says, \u201cMany places are important for things other than what is coming out of the oven. The history, impact, even how a pizzeria represents and reflects the unique culture.\u201d By these measures Pizzeria Mozza<\/em> is a groundbreaking pizza place. Nancy Silverton was layering burrata over a sourdough base a decade before most of the food world knew what either was.<\/p>\n

In the pre-Mozza<\/em> age pizza was revered in most of the world as a trashy fast-food delivered by multinational chains or greasy neighborhood joints. Now it\u2019s a culinary and, yes, trendy craft embraced by serious bakers, you first and foremost among them, and now Michelin-starred chefs.<\/p>\n

The best pizza makers can make a Margherita with their eyes closed. But many don\u2019t know how to think and create like a chef. As a result their innovative combination pizzas may look sexy on Instagram but the compositions don\u2019t always make sense. The toppings don\u2019t work together. Or there are just too many of them. A wonderful worldwide trend consists of pizzaioli<\/em> who think like chefs \u2013 smart chefs who understand that less is more. They may introduce kimchee, barbecued brisket, sauerkraut or sashimi on a pizza but it won\u2019t all be on the same pizza, thank Heavens.\"Pepe<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

–P. Do you foresee that any of these results may help settle arguments about which really are the best pizza cities or regions?<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

D.<\/strong> This book is supposed to be \u201cthe last word on the slice.\u201d But me, when it comes to pizza, I like to start arguments, not settle them. Remember, Peter, my mantra is \u201cbeginning of\u201d and not \u201cend of.\u201d<\/p>\n

–-P. I know you have to be somewhat diplomatic about your own preferences, but did the results either confirm or challenge your own preconceptions about pizza and its various styles?<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

D:<\/strong> I believe in pizza bubbles, as never before. As in music they are the silent spaces that make the notes stand out. No matter the style of pizza there must be some development of the hole structure, there must be compression to the chew for full enjoyment. Everyone talks about pleasantly chewy pizza by I\u2019m not always sure what they mean. Also, why is chewy pizza dough good but chewy meat is bad?<\/p>\n

So I\u2019ve thought a lot about chewiness and elasticity, from the eating point of view, not the baking point of view. And if a pizza is delightfully chewy that means the eater has two alternatives when biting off a piece:<\/p>\n