Guest Columns
I'm in a Vera Pizza Napoletana Kind of Mood
Brad English

I don’t think I need to explain what the Vera Pizza Napoletana (VPN) certification is in detail, but to anyone who’s just wandered by our site, who may not know, the VPN was established as a denomination of control (DOC) by the Italian government to designate and identify pizzerias who meet and follow strict requirements that respect the traditions and art of true Neapolitan Pizza making.vpn ready for wood fire

What the VPN does is work to try to maintain the origins and traditions of Napoletana pizza by establishing rules and guidelines about the use of ingredients and processes in creating pizzas in the age old Neapolitan traditions.  I don’t know about you, but I crave this connection and dedication at times.  The doughs are simple and yet sooo delicious!  There’s nothing complex to the dough:  “00” flour, salt, yeast, water.  Yet, producing a brilliant dough in this style out of my own oven has been a difficult task.  I’ve made some good pizzas and maybe even some “great” ones in this style, but by my definition none of them came close to the most brilliant doughs I’ve had by so many master pizzaiolos that we've met here on Pizza Quest.vpn dough

Every time I make a pizza I learn something. I surpass my expectations with one aspect of the pizza and probably dash my dreams over another. A week after I made the best dough I think I’ve ever created the next batch falls terribly short.  The topping ingredients are the easy part.  There are true artisans, craftspeople, artists out there who have perfected their products.  I can buy a truly inspiring salumi, fresh artisan mozzarella, local farmers market herbs and vegetables, the best tomatoes etc.People like Rob DiNapoli and Chris Bianco are out there focusing on producing amazing tomato products.  But the one aspect we have to perfect at home, all by ourselves, is the dough!

Pizza isn’t easy for that reason.  The dough is a living, breathing entity.  If you haven’t seen it, watch this presentation Peter Reinhart gave on TED about the life of bread. *LINK It’s really fascinating.  Pizza dough is the same.  It’s an ever changing, evolving thing that starts as dry ingredients, is transformed into a wet dough ball that grows as the yeast and sugars in the flour interact, and then is cooked and dried again in the oven creating a pizza.  That’s a difficult process to get right - especially with consistency.shaped dough

Then try working in a Wood Fired Oven!  That adds a whole lot of variables, but what I love about it is that you can’t just dial in an exact temperature or place your pizza, salmon, veggies, steak, or pork roast into the oven and walk away while a digital timer ticks down to “DONE”!   You can’t even repeat what you did the last time you cooked.  Each fire is different.  Each day is different.  Each time you go into your wood fired oven it’s a dance between you, your food and the wild elements at work. To me, that’s brilliant.  I never follow a recipe to the letter. Instead, I like to use most recipes as a guide. Making pizza in a wood fired oven is the same.  Success requires your past experiences and current senses to guide you and that is so much fun and the pay off is awesome.

Pizza is always a dance to be sure. Even when cooking in my home oven, where the temperature can be set to an exact temperature and I’ve rigged my oven with 2 pizza stones and a baking steel to help regulate the heat distribution, I still have to dance the jingo-jango to coax the best pizza out of the oven!wood fire vpn pizza

Following are some photos of my VPN dough using a 00 Flour and my roaring hot Primavera Oven.  I’ll do some recipes for the pizzas in another post.  I normally would just post a recipe about each pizza I made, but, for now, let me just say that I came close to pure pizza joy and perfection -- and close is pretty pretty good!


Bob Radcliffe's Tomato Test
Bob Radcliffe

Note from Peter: Many of you have read Bob Radcliffe's entire Pizza Quest series on his search for the perfect tomato pie, and some of you have even been to his extraordinary tomato pie events at Lynch Creek Farm in rural North Carolina. You can see some of the testimonials as you read through the Comments section of his articles (most of the articles are further down on this home page, or can also be found in the Guest Column archives).  For more details on Bob's Ben Franklin Society and the BreadWorks events at Lynch Creek Farm (seating is limited and it's a hot ticket!), check it out at:  or write to Bob at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it   (you can also check out his bio in the Contributor's section).  You can also find him on Facebook:

As always, we are once again grateful to Bob for this latest contribution in his never ending quest, fueled by a passion that many of us share -- but few have Bob's tenacity. Bob did send along a number of photos to help tell the story but, while the website is undergoing renovation, we are still unable to load them, so I will just run the story now and we'll add the photos later. I didn't want to delay getting this out now, as both the information and Bob's writing is really excellent. So, enjoy Bob's Tomato Test!


Bob’s Tomato Taste Test
I cannot believe it’s been more than six months since I concluded my “Tomato Pie, Rocky Ford and Me” series for Peter Reinhart’s Pizza Quest. Well, I’m back with another story, about a taste test I conducted to determine which canned tomatoes have the best flavor for a tomato pie. I must admit, now that I’ve done it, I’ve learned it’s a lot harder to conduct an unbiased taste test than I ever imagined.

The old adage, “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again,” rang true for me. After two failed attempts, I finally managed to complete a Tomato Taste Test. My first attempt was at an outdoor BreadWorks Event (Aug. 23, 2014) that a thunderstorm washed out. My second attempt (Sept. 13, 2014) was stymied when some of my prepared tomatoes inexplicably molded, and most certainly could not be used. At last, the stars must have aligned. During a holiday open house for the Ben Franklin Society on Dec. 28, 2014, success! Christmas was certainly an unlikely time of year for a tomato taste test, but I had promised Peter and Brad English. So, I guess folks will eat a good Tomato Pie anytime you are willing to prepare one.

I selected three different tomato brands for this Tomato Taste Test. Here’s what I used, along with my comparison commentary:

1.    Rob DiNapoli’s - California Bianco brand – one 102-ounce, unlined can of Whole Peeled, Vine Ripened Organically Grown, California Plum Tomatoes with Basil. Medium to large fruits (3” or larger). Noticeably dense and seedy. Ample basil leaf. Thick sauce.

2.    My imported Philadelphia favorite - Rosa brand – three 35-ounce lined cans of San Marzano Italian Peeled Tomatoes, All Natural with Basil Leaf in Tomato Puree. Medium to large fruits (3” or greater). Less dense with some seeds. More basil leaf. Thick sauce.

3.    An imported New Jersey rival - Cento brand - to challenge my belief they were similar to Rosa – three 28-ounce lined cans of Pomodoro San Marzano Certified Peeled Tomatoes with Basil Leaf. Small fruits (2” or larger). Little density, mushy and few seeds. No noticeable basil leaf. Thinner sauce.

I prepared each of the sample tomatoes identically. Just as I described in my article, “Try It, You’ll Like It.”  I sugared each sample individually to even out the sweet/acid balance of each product. The prepared tomatoes were refrigerated overnight, brought to room temperature, then tasted again, and adjusted if needed, to ensure an even balance between brands before using them in the Taste Test. Surprisingly, each uncooked sample looked and tasted quite different, even though they all were plum-type tomatoes. Because the Tomatoes cook on the pie, and I add no other seasoning to the tomatoes, when baked, their taste is enhanced by evaporation to reveal their distinctive tomato flavor.

Each sample piece had both tomato, cheese, mushroom and sausage on it. Making those rectangular pies for me was a struggle. Quite a challenge. You know I cannot make round pies. Keeping the crust thickness and applying the toppings uniformly was tedious.

Each tray was labeled as either Sample “A,” “B,” or “C.” I baked the pies in an electric oven with a pizza stone (not my outdoor, wood-fired oven) – so the samples lacked that smoky aroma. After serving, I asked each person to take one piece of each Sample “A,” “B,” and “C,” and rank how the tomatoes tasted – with no hint of which tomato brand was used. I asked them to fill out a form to serve as a score card. Everyone was free to sample more Tomato Pie, but this was not a typical buffet-style Tomato Pie Event where I bake 40-50 pies in my wood-fired oven.

About 45 folks attended, and some couples submitted only one score card. I asked everyone to rate the tomatoes on each of the three samples, and write comments as well. Here are the raw data findings from the twenty-one score cards completed:

Tomato brand            1st         2nd        3rd
Sample A (Rosa)         11         2            8
Sample B (Bianco)        8         6            7
Sample C (Cento)         2        13           6

When conducting a Survey, you hope a clear winner emerges. In this case, one did not. Here’s my take on the results – based upon the scores above, along with anecdotal remarks at the event, comments written on the forms, and practical considerations important to me:

1.    The Biancos were rated as being “earthy with a full, plum tomato taste.” The fruits were large and fibrous, but somewhat harder to cut into pieces.

2.    The Rosas were rated as “sweeter.” The fruits were large and meaty, not fibrous, and easier to prepare.

3.    The Centos were obviously good with 13 votes for 2nd place, but not great with 2 votes for 1st place. The fruits were very small and stringy with a lack of pulp.

I recommend the Bianco brand
I prefer to continue using the Rosa brand
I would not recommend the Cento brand

4.    Unlike the Taste Test, from my cost perspective, the winner was clear-cut:
Rosa     $0.10 per ounce
Cento    $0.15 per ounce
Bianco   $0.30 per ounce

The Bianco brand is readily available in California and may be purchased online, but shipping costs are prohibitive. East Coast availability may be limited. These are a Made-in-the-USA product and are not imported. They are a plum tomato, and would say they are not, a San Marzano - but they are delightful nevertheless.

I am unsure of the availability of the Rosa brand tomatoes nationwide. I believe they are only imported from Italy into the Eastern port cities of Philadelphia and Baltimore. Kerry, my wife, actually buys and picks-up Rosas in Philadelphia at the Rosa Grey’s Ferry warehouse - when she regularly travels to work in our old Spring Garden neighborhood.

The Cento brand is broadly available at most food stores and big-box grocery retailers. The price varies, but is marketed as a premium product. I was disappointed in the fruit size and lack of texture and pulp. The fruit size in all three cans I purchased was uniformly small. I found them difficult to work with when preparing the product as I do.

Well, this Tomato Taste Test may not be the END-ALL of taste tests. I do hope I’ve added some value to the process of choosing the best tomatoes to use when making a Tomato Pie. I don’t claim that Rosas are superior, but on a taste, cost and availability basis, they remain my preferred choice.

If a better brand emerges, rest assured, I will happily begin using it for my BreadWorks Dining Events at Lynch Creek Farm in rural North Carolina.

Until my next Taste Test, or other food-worthy experiment  .  .  .  Happy trails! – Bob

Tomato Pie, Rocky Ford, and Me, Part 7 (conclusion)
Bob Radcliffe

Note from Peter:  This is the final installment of Bob's series, which has been a huge inspiration for many of us. Bob has shown that where there's a will (and serious fire) there's a way. Please note in the narrative below the link to Bob's video, which was professionally filmed by a local crew for television -- really terrific! And feel free to subscribe to his newsletter and stay connected with The Ben Franklin Society and The BreadWorks events. Here's a link, also, to a recent news story about Bob and his work:

Remember, you read about him here first!!  Thank you Bob for a great series. When you come up for air we'd love to hear more from you.

And now, the final chapter, full of useful tips for any of you with that same passion and fire within to pursue your own quest or, simply, make your own delicious tomato pies!



When I left Philadelphia 15 years ago to begin anew in Carolina, I created a “Philly-in-the-Woods” in my adopted home.  It has a log cabin, and overall I’ve tried to combine the genius of Ben Franklin with the practicality of a small farm. This Little Philly on my Lynch Creek Farm now serves as a get-away in the middle of Franklin County, a special gathering place to dine and entertain with your friends. Who’d of thought an idea like that would work? Me. I just believe you can sometimes will things to happen - with enough hard work and determination.


As part of creating my Little Philly, I wanted to develop a signature pizza reminiscent of Delorenzo’s Tomato Pie. A recent BreadWorks event at my farm attracted 65 folks and confirmed for me that each attendee, in their own way, experienced “Philly-in-the-Woods” – tasty food, coupled with live music and great friends – in a most unlikely Carolina venue.  We’re not Asheville, nor the Outer Banks, but just as special and exhilarating for those who came. Watch my video called BreadWorks Tomato Pies with Bob Radcliffe on Youtube at:
It’s no coincidence this installment shares the same title as my monthly BreadWorks newsletter, and similarly conveys the notion that for every ending, there is a new beginning.

My starting point was understanding that to make a great Tomato Pie, I first had to master open-fire cooking.  There is no modern digital or even mechanical control over the temperature – just primal fire, heat and smoke – a near religious experience. Grilling comes to mind, but we’re talking about wood-fired, oven baking here!  Have you surmised the fate of my sacrificial pie? My first test dough is usually destined for ruin in an oven too hot, but serves as a necessary quality check before I begin food service. Another essential first step is to clean the oven floor of all debris first, initially from wood embers, and later from burned semolina flour. Always use a natural bristle brush, never a brass, metallic or plastic brush. That avoids introducing metal or plastic fragments into your Pie. Natural bristle brushes burn up over time and I discard them. Wrap the brush with a wet cloth and wipe the oven floor to remove any remaining grit.

Next, insert the Tomato Pie in the oven with a short-handled wooden peel. Once in the oven, I manage the pies with a long-handled metal peel, the flat-ended kind you may have seen in pizza restaurants. This approach works best for me. Also, clean the oven floor every four to six pies. You want to capture the smoky oven flavor, not the burned residue on the oven floor.

Clearly outside ovens are disadvantaged in cold and wet weather. My shed roof provides working cover for me in the rain, and I prepare pies inside my warm cabin when it is cold, then walk them outside to cook; otherwise the dough is unworkable. Even in the dead of winter, my oven still registers over 200 degrees F after cooling down overnight (a great time to roast or braise a sizeable cut of meat).

When I am cooking a large number of pies (40+ for a BreadWorks event), I partially cook the pies ahead of time, cover them with foil, and store them on metal serving trays in a rolling baking rack. When patrons begin to arrive and food service begins, I reheat the pies quickly, add the toppings, cut and serve continuously without undue delay - with the help of my aiuto pizzaiola or assistant pizza maker - April Hitchcock.

I prefer classic-style aluminum trays to serve my Tomato Pie - preferably ones generously decorated with cut marks – like those I remember from Delorenzo’s. Although I recall a short-bladed knife was used to cut the pies into irregular shapes, I prefer a rolling cutter. To each his own. There was nothing better than sopping-up the last drips of olive oil and bits of tomato from those metal trays with a piece of crust. The cardboard forms and boxes used today ruin this experience altogether. And yes, I always serve retro glass-bottled soda - never cans, plastic foam cups, paper plates or plastic cutlery – Philly style demands the real thing.

If you ever have leftovers, wrap the slices in foil and refrigerate. For the best taste, reheat in a hot cast-iron pan without oil. Just drop the slices onto the pan and heat until they gently bubble. The slices will taste like they just came out of the oven. I’ve heard it put this way: “It’s the iron pan – stupid!” By all means never use a microwave.

By the way, in May, my favorite TV show, “The Mind of a Chef,” received the James Beard Foundation’s Broadcast Award for Television on Location ( ). I must sadly note, it beat out “A Chef’s Life” featuring Vivian Howard of the “Chef & the Farmer” ( ) in Kinston, NC – my home-state TV food telecast.

Gosh, (drawing my Pizza Pie story to a close), it has certainly has been an incredible journey, as Peter envisioned when the Pizza Quest website was launched. I believe my story is one of many testaments to the “amazing things” revealed when artisanship flourishes. Thank you, Peter, for the opportunity to tell my story, and for understanding that “If at first you don’t succeed, try again.” Above all, it’s been fun!

Thanks to each of you for reading along and providing comments and suggestions. My odyssey continues - there’s the looming Potato Pie story, flavored cheeses, other toppings, seasoning-wood alternatives, and who knows what the mind of a chef will conjure-up – roasts, casseroles and even desserts.

I hope to have honored my promise not to bore you with my story. I have shared a lot of my techniques in the belief I could encourage you to make your first Tomato Pie. You will hear from me again, but until then, by all means cook with the mind of a chef - YOU CAN DO IT!  If you ever need help, know you can always contact me by email.

In the meantime, keep up with my latest adventures by subscribing to my monthly BreadWorks newsletter ( Better yet, attend one of my upcoming BreadWorks events, or stop by to see Molly and me, and of course take a tour of downtown Rocky Ford.
Call ahead though, so I can remember to leave the light on. Happy trails!

P.S. A note of special thanks for the backstage help I have received during the publication of this series of articles and my BreadWorks events from: Marion Blackburn, Dennis and Jane Radcliffe, Brad English, Pat Washburn, Dave Debonzo and Gloria Urbano.

Tomato Pie, Rocky Ford, and Me, part 6
Bob Radcliffe

Part Six – A “Field of Dreams”

When we bought our Rocky Ford farm property in 1997, it was the culmination of a lifelong dream. We had previously restored an 1858 row house in the historic Spring Garden neighborhood of Philadelphia, but this was different -- nearly 55 acres with a stream along side. We named our farm property Lynch Creek, after the stream that I found had more history associated with it than I ever could have imagined. That discovery led me to create the non-profit Ben Franklin Society in 2008 honoring the forgotten Yankee namesake of our county, and then hold fund-raising events through the associated Franklin BreadWorks private dining and entertainment club.

Even though I spend a lot of time indoors cooking, my days include many hours managing the farm using sustainable practices. This outdoors work is a labor of love. Indeed, all my life I’ve been an outdoors type. As a kid, I would fish all day at Gropp’s Lake in Yardville, N.J., riding a bike to the lake from my home. After college, I lived in a Dutch Colonial farmhouse in Middlebush, NJ and played hooky from work to go trout fishing alone in the Delaware Water Gap. It seemed natural to me in 2000 to begin the work necessary to place our farm in permanent conservation easement. Our legal agreement with the local Tar River Land Conservancy was finalized in December 2007. By deed, our property will remain a farm forever, may not be subdivided or developed beyond the needs of a farm, and has a restricted 12-acre stream buffer zone along Lynch Creek.

In the same time period I began working to secure organic farm certification, which you may imagine was the butt of many jokes in a very traditional Southern farming area in North Carolina’s tobacco country. I vividly recall baffled local farmers scratching their heads with hat in hand as they stopped roadside by my 15- acre field of buckwheat in white blossom. They had never before seen such a cover crop – buckwheat, peas and clover!

Over the years I have fixed fencing, plumbing and electrical problems; built a front pasture storage barn, stream pump and spring house, a woodshop, a chicken coop, a heated greenhouse and unheated high-tunnel, a produce workshop with walk-in cooler, and a vehicle maintenance barn; built our Log Cabin from 100 year old pine logs salvaged from two dismantled tobacco pack houses in Elmo, Va.; and finally, built my wood-fired Pompeii-style brick oven. Only a smokehouse renovation project remains on my to-do list.

Our Log Cabin was initially to be an antique showroom for my wife, Kerry. It morphed into an artist’s studio, and finally into a business meeting event center when we finally completed construction in December 2012. Construction continued over ten years with many obstacles. If you’re interested, our website, has posted a month-by-month chronology and photographs of the last four years of my construction work.

The site plan we designed (with help from Tim Hanauer of Earth Graphics, Greensboro, NC) around the cabin to control erosion provided the opening I needed to add an outdoor, wood-fired oven. At the time, no one, not even Kerry, comprehended why I was doing this. To me it was simple – not to cook traditional Southern BBQ, but rather to bake Tomato Pie and artisan breads, of course!

I began building my oven in 2008. The Forno Bravo guideline Pompeii Oven plans were my reference. It was an incredible challenge to build. Its sheer size (56” inside diameter) dwarfs most residential and commercial models. I needed to be sure I could bake two standard sheet trays (18” x 26”) at a time. When I bake breads, I always start my loaves on sheet trays and then transfer them to the oven floor (it’s just too difficult to do otherwise). I use my oven door when I bake breads. It was made by our Pennsylvania friend and expert blacksmith, Ray Mathis (, The Forno Bravo Forum was an incredible resource along the way, but my Yankee ingenuity was required to overcome a few key construction dilemmas:

· Oven entranceway: I chose to use formwork, not brickwork, to build an arched opening. I also used laminated chimney flue pipe to create the precise, arched door reveal. Special high-temperature concrete mix was required – like that used in pottery kilns.

· Chimney flue transition: I again built a custom form to transition from my rectangular flue opening to my circular double-insulated stainless steel chimney pipe. I used carved Styrofoam that could be chipped-out after the high-temperature concrete cured to expose the flue geometry.

If interested, you can view a slide-show of how I built my wood-fired oven using the web link provided on my Biography page here:

I finally cooked my first Tomato Pie in the Oven on Oct. 24, 2011. We prototyped a handful of BreadWorks events in 2012, and began scheduling monthly BreadWorks Dining and Entertainment events in 2013 at the showplace we have today. To understand how some of the more than 400 Ben Franklin Society BreadWorks community members feel about their headquarters, you can read the comments posted for the articles of this series. We are humbled by the success and support we have received.

Indeed our “Field of Dreams” had become a reality – even more than we had envisioned. Kerry often reminds me to “watch what you pray for.” Our property also represents a new sustainable farm model – one integrated with a non-profit entity committed to educational, literary and scientific endeavors. Remarkably, what makes it all work, is food and entertainment - with a blend of farm and public service. Rather than growing food for market, I now grow menu ingredients.

Many have asked me “If you had known how much time and effort it was going to take, would you have begun?” In reply, “I just decide what I want to do, and go do it.” I’ve concluded over the years that I am just wired differently than most. Few contemporaries of mine have ever understood my choices and timing. That’s okay.

Now you understand how long it took, and how difficult it was, before I cooked my first Tomato Pie in Rocky Ford. Let me pass some tips along to you about using such an oven:

First, let’s talk about firing the oven. As you know, everything passes in-and-out of the oven entrance. With larger diameter ovens like mine, you need a bigger fire. To do that, I start small “Lincoln” log fires (on wooden rails) with a propane torch just under the flue opening in the entranceway, and then slide the log rails into the oven with my metal peel. I usually make at least two, if not three, such fires. I then begin adding split oak wood to gradually create a large fire at the middle of the oven. I burn a vigorous fire for about three hours (until the oven is white hot). I always use oak (hardwood) for what I call the furnace fire that’s solely responsible for heating the oven.

Next, I use a metal hoe to split the fire and push the coals and remaining wood equally to each side creating a center cooking platform. From this point on, I consider these side-fires - flavoring-fires. I optionally use seasoning woods such as hickory, apple, pecan, and even coal, to add another hidden layer of flavor. These fires use smaller pieces of wood, but are essential as you bake Tomato Pie as I do, over several hours, to keep the hot air circulating from the dome above, to the floor below. I continue to experiment with variations of fuel whose smoke flavors my Tomato Pie.

Then, I bake what I call my “sacrificial” pie.

More about that in my next installment - “Philadelphia Style with Carolina Character.” I’ll have more tips about baking, plating, and presenting Tomato Pie and how to deal with leftovers (if any). And yes, gently wind my story down -- for now.




Tomato Pie, Rocky Ford, and Me, Part 5
Bob Radcliffe


My experiences working at Jack’s Firehouse were the most memorable of my 20 years living in Philadelphia. The deal I made with Chef Jack McDavid was simple – I would work one day a week without pay, if he would teach me three new things each shift. When I left and moved to Rocky Ford, he told me, “If you put your mind to it, you could run a restaurant one day.”  I took that as a compliment and confidence builder that to this day, steadies me when confronted with the demands of managing a 55-acre working farm.

My analytical background served me well in the past. As I began adventuring into the culinary world it became clear to me from everything I read, the professionals I observed, and the impressions I got from a proliferation of TV shows that it was all about “layers of flavor.”  More important, about being willing to do whatever it takes to develop those flavors.

Let me explain how I think about building the “layers of flavor” into my Tomato Pie:

--It was paramount to remain true to what a Delorenzo’s Tomato Pie meant to me. It’s all about the bread and tomatoes. The crisp (almost burned) artisan crust becomes the foundation layer of flavor to the extent that I do everything possible to ensure it remains crisp. That means isolating the dough from the juicy tomatoes with a thin layer of cheese, for instance, or not using even a drop of olive oil either in or on the dough until after it has been cooked.

--I prominently display the tomatoes in visible chunks, not in an indiscriminate layer of sauce, to visibly convey their importance.

--Many patrons in the South tell me “No garlic, please.” I nod affirmatively, but always proceed to spread a large clove of freshly crushed garlic on every dough I prepare for the oven. I follow this with a generous array of freshly ground black pepper. Never a complaint so far!

--Thin slices of cheese follow to seal the dough from the moisture of the tomatoes and meat toppings that follow. Meats, if any, are selectively placed, and then, always last, come the tomatoes. Then I quickly slide the pie into the awaiting oven. That’s it!

--Noticeably missing are the olive oil, mushrooms and spinach. I never apply olive oil while the dough is cooking (in the oven). No one wants a “burned” mushroom or spinach flavor from the extreme heat of a wood-fired oven, nor be the reason to remove a pie before the crust is perfectly cooked. I sauté and season the mushrooms and spinach to taste, ahead of time, to perfection! They are warmed by the pie as it cools down. (Again, I credit Jack for teaching me that all temperatures cook – both low and high ones. Whether I was cleaning squid in an ice-water bath to keep it from cooking, or recalling his story about how Japanese tuna fisherman quickly pull live tuna in with hand lines and then ceremoniously cut and bleed them, force a rod down their spine to immobilize them, and then flash freeze them at sea – all to preserve the essence of the tuna flesh – a most highly prized and costly product. All fish start to "cook," even at sea water temperatures, as soon as they die).
From this experience I concluded, “Why waste the heat of a cooling Tomato Pie?  Let it warm the oil, mushrooms and spinach.”

--I generously apply olive oil with a squeeze bottle to the cornicione (edge of the crust) immediately after I remove the pie from the oven. An added benefit of this approach is that you never burn the roof of your mouth and ruin the pleasure of eating the rest of your pie. If desired, I sparingly add the mushrooms and spinach.  Then I apply the salt, grated Parmesan, and (always last) torn basil. Done!

Simple but thoughtful steps mean that we are always building layers of flavor as we go. Oh, yes, one last hidden flavor: the delicious one that comes from the wood-fired oven itself!

Don’t think I was born knowing how to do this type of cooking. It took years of trial and error to decipher this culinary puzzle. Don’t be constrained by tradition and consensus thinking. Leap outside the box (a learned, but uncanny ability I have had through all of my life’s endeavors).  Maybe this is why I became so attracted to the TV show “Mind of a Chef.”  It helped me more clearly understand what food was really about – a metaphor for life itself.  Without food there is no life.  The quality of our food is integral to the quality of our lives.

As an educator, it was important to me to convey knowledge to the next generation, but it was even more important to give them the confidence they needed to succeed.  “The answers are all there; learn to ask the right sequence of questions,” they told me in engineering school at Rutgers University in 1964.  I credit the leaders, educators and friends I had along the way for shaping my “can-do” mindset.

Jack McDavid was the only chef I ever worked for, and to this day, I feel grateful to have had that experience. Thanks again Jack. You done good!





In my next posting I will discuss the wood-fired oven that I built so I could achieve the high temperatures  needed to cook my ideal Tomato Pie, adding that "invisible layer of flavor."
It is aptly named, “A Field of Dreams.”  Still lots to discuss, so see you again soon.

Tomato Pie, Rocky Ford, and Me, Part 4
Bob Radcliffe



I’m known for more than making Tomato Pie on my Franklin County Farm. I’ve also made an appearance of sorts on the front page of the Times – the Franklin Times that is – and the cover of Back Home Magazine (thanks to friend and writer Donna Campbell Smith).

Let me explain how my ass gets on the front page! Molly, my donkey, is the guard animal for my herd of beef cattle, protecting them from predators. I bought her from a goat herder who was going out of business. Starting to sound strange? She was really pretty but had bad feet. “Would you buy a used car with four flat tires,” I ask? Probably not, but I did! I was confident I could fix her feet. Heck, I was already vetting my cattle, pulling calves and castrating bulls. Not too shabby for a city-slicker. But honestly, without Coy Duke’s help (rest his soul), I would be in deep, as they say.

Well, after two long years of research, vet consultations, medicines, help from farrier Joey Hite, and nearly getting kicked to death, Molly now has four sound feet and is a real beauty queen -- a cover girl – and, when pictured with me on the front page of the local newspaper, the cue for everyone to ask “Which one is the jackass?”

I take all this in stride because I’m a Yankee in the South who is on a mission to make Rocky Ford famous with my Tomato Pie. Can you hear the laughter getting louder down at the Biscuit Kitchen in nearby Louisburg?

Well, I tell everyone down here that I am no rabbit, but I sure am a fast turtle. I am confident I will live long enough to get the last laugh -- at least I sure hope so. If not, as they often remind me, I can always use my return bus ticket and find my way back to Philadelphia and points north.

I’ll get back on point – Tomato Pie – since that’s what you’re reading for! I’ve got some interesting tips about toppings. Once you’ve had a look, I would appreciate some emails from you with your recommendations.

Toppings cooked on my Tomato Pie

large fresh-crushed clove on the dough

Fresh Ground Black Pepper
on the dough

7-9 slices covering the surface of the dough

Sausage (and any other meats)
nominally one piece per slice

irregularly spaced pieces

· Each garlic variety tastes different. I am still experimenting with which variety to grow and use. I have raised both hard and soft-necks. I prefer hard-necks because they store longer. The soft-necks tasted great, but are too perishable. Do you have a garlic variety you could recommend?

· Replicating the sausage flavor I recall from DeLorenzo’s has been a real challenge. I finally gave-up on the prospect of simply buying it somewhere. I was really excited when I bought my commercial Bread Mixer because I could grind meat with it as well. When you make sausage, you can’t do it in tiny batches. So each experiment that doesn’t work out leaves you with at least 5-pounds of stuff. You’ve got to first select the cut of meat and target fat percentage, use the right die-size on the meat grinder, and get your seasonings and proportions right. Experiments like this get expensive and quickly consume a warehouse of freezers. I finally have honed-in on my own “secret” recipe after years of fiddling around. I just describe it as a sweet-basil Italian sausage. By the way, I also have developed a “secret” breakfast sausage recipe that I sometimes serve at my BreadWorks Sunday Brunches.

I am sure that in 1950 DeLorenzo had a butcher buddy that knocked this stuff out with simple ingredients. There were no supermarkets at the time, no TV Food Channel, no celebrity chefs, probably just Tony next door. But he made great Italian sausage; probably a hand me down family recipe from Sicily like the one I someday may pass along.

I always use free-form, “loose” sausage pieces on my pie, not neat slices with a casing. Maybe, that’s why I shy away from using pepperoni on my Tomato Pies. It just doesn’t look right, and in my opinion, overpowers the tomatoes.

Toppings added to my Tomato Pie (after it is removed from the oven)

Olive Oil
immediately applied to the crust with a squeeze bottle – be generous – heated by the Pie

sparingly applied if so desired – heated by the Pie

sparingly applied if so desired – heated by the Pie

Coarse Kosher Salt
applied to taste

Fresh-grated Parmesan Cheese
for flavor and decoration

Fresh-torn Basil
always last for aroma

· The olive oil should not be light, fragrant or aromatic, but rather a middle blend, to prevent the heat of the Pie from creating an unpleasant aroma. Think about focaccia when applying the oil. Be generous. It will be absorbed by the crust. You will never burn the roof of you mouth, like most pizzas do, that cook the oil on the pie in a hot oven! The oil is slowly warmed as the Tomato Pie cools down.

· Mushrooms are sautéed separately and seasoned as desired and simply added to the cooling pie. In this way they are never burned. I prefer the earthy flavor of the shitake, but crimini (small portabellas) work well also. Only at last resort do I use white button mushroom – they lack the flavor I prefer. What variety of mushrooms do you recommend?

· Spinach is also sautéed separately and seasoned as desired and simply added to the cooling pie. In this way it is never burned. I prefer fresh whole leaf spinach with garlic, but frozen spinach works fine if well drained.

· Course kosher salt is preferred, but specialty sea salts can be used. Do you have any such recommendations?

· Fresh-grated Parmesan – the better cheeses, although more expensive, are worth it. Do you have any recommendations?

· Fresh-torn basil adds that flash of aroma as you eat the first slices of your Tomato Pie. It burns easily, and a little goes a long way. I grow basil in season (above freezing), but prefer to have potted plants nearby the kitchen.

Before winding this installment down however, I want to let you in on a secret. I have been experimenting with a new topping – beyond what DeLorenzo’s (past or present) ever imagined. Fingerling potatoes - like the size and shape of your small finger.

The idea of using fingerlings on Tomato Pie actually comes from Tacconnelli’s Pizza, another famous haunt of mine in Philadelphia. I remember having Vince make a special Potato Pie for my 40th birthday celebration. It was delicious, but sadly the first and last Potato Pie I’ve ever eaten – but not forgotten. When fingerling potatoes are roasted properly, they are as addictive as peanuts!

Coincidentally, I have specialized in growing fingerling potatoes for years. As by now you can probably imagine, I grew a test potato garden (in 2006) of a dozen varieties to find the best one for my soil and environment and settled on Austrian Crescent’s – and they do have great Rocky Ford terroir!

When I perfect my recipe and technique, I believe Potato Pies could be hugely popular in the South, and my “ace-in-the-hole” to make Rocky Ford famous (if my Tomato Pies should stumble). Maybe I’ll be the only Tomato and Potato Pie baker in North Carolina – perhaps the whole country – maybe the world!

I started this column today with a story about Molly so by the time you got to the end of the article you could catch your breath from laughing so hard. But I’m afraid my latest idea – Potato Pie – may have you howling again. I hope you’ve enjoyed this post. Catch your breath, as there’s still more to come about “Layers of Flavor.” The tables included above establish a framework for that discussion. Please remember to send your suggestions by email to This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it (as well as commenting below).





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