#1  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:18 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: aus
Posts: 5
Default Mortarless dome/vault?

Dear all,

I'm wondering whether a mortar-less dome or vault is stronger than one with mortar?

I first thought it would be, this would require bricks with angled sides, as you get a perfect keystone structure, but after reading some more, perhaps the mortar serves to distribute compression forces.

What do engineering types think?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:08 PM
brickie in oz's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Whittlesea
Posts: 3,455
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

I think a mortar less dome is very feasible, once everything is in place it wont go anywhere.

There is an external link on the forum somewhere where a dome is completed with a sand dome form, bricks with no mortar and then bogged over the outside with gloop.
__________________
The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:34 PM
stonecutter's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Carolina,USA
Posts: 1,930
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

A truly mortar less dome would be a very difficult task.... one without a parge, or filling the void under each brick in the course.


I also do no think it would make a superior oven, for a multitude of reasons...practicality would be #1. Omitting mortar may even shorten the service life of an oven too, due to the thermal cycling (expansion and contraction) . Mortar plays many role in masonry construction, (which an oven is) and couple of them are to serve as a protective gasket to the units laid, and as well as a network of masonry ( like webbing ) which adds strength to the structure.

Dry work of any kind, is reliant on friction, weight of the units and gravity to hold it together. Even with a good cladding layer, an oven is a dynamic thing.

I am not saying it is not possible, it would be a cool oven to see....I am a big fan of tight fitting work. But the effort will NEVER be equal to the reward, because the same results can be had using traditional methods.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Current WFO build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:37 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: aus
Posts: 5
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

I thought I posted a reply but perhaps its awaiting moderation, but there is an example of a mortarless vault here, MHA News - 2009 Meeting at Wildacres
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:44 PM
stonecutter's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Carolina,USA
Posts: 1,930
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

You're joking right? That oven was completely built with mortar.

The arch was dry fit, yes, but there is a light parge, and the sides are mortared. There is zero benefit outside of conversational for "dry" fitting the vault roof.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Current WFO build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:44 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: aus
Posts: 5
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

Sorry I meant to only talk about the arch
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:46 PM
stonecutter's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Carolina,USA
Posts: 1,930
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

Also, note that the oven built was meant to be temporary. That would be an exception.

It is taken for granted (at least by me) that when people plan and build ovens, they want them to last a very long time...and even have some the idea that the oven will out live them.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Current WFO build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:53 PM
david s's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Townsville, Nth Queensland,Australia
Posts: 4,887
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

Many kilns are built using bricks without mortar. It allows for free expansion. There is way more expansion in a kiln than an oven because the temps are around three times higher.The problem with using such a method for a dome is that the bricks need to be cut precisely to avoid gaps which will leak heat.

Last edited by david s; 10-11-2013 at 06:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:53 PM
stonecutter's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Carolina,USA
Posts: 1,930
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edd91 View Post
Sorry I meant to only talk about the arch
Gotcha. I say go for it if that is what you want to do. It certainly won't matter to pizza. Make sure you insulate well, and if posible keep the roof accessible. One thing a barrel vault has over the dome is that it is MUCH easier to rebuild ( I'm not saying you will have to necessarily) If you dry stack your dome, then it will greatly benefit you to stagger bond your courses, just like the photos. It's tempting to run a row, drop the centering, run the next, etc. That way works but it is not as strong.

So, it will work, yes...is it best practice? no......my new mantra
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Current WFO build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-11-2013, 06:54 PM
brickie in oz's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Whittlesea
Posts: 3,455
Default Re: Mortarless dome/vault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edd91 View Post
I thought I posted a reply but perhaps its awaiting moderation, but there is an example of a mortarless vault here, MHA News - 2009 Meeting at Wildacres
You must have maxed out their bandwidth as the page is unavailable.....
__________________
The English language was invented by people who couldnt spell.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Mortarless Realistic? GianniFocaccia Pompeii Oven Construction 18 06-22-2011 07:39 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC