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Old 11-22-2005, 08:43 AM
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Thumbs up The Colonel's Metal Stud Framing

#82

(M) If you haven't already seen the comprehensive documentation by Colonelcorn76 (Jim Hatch) on Yahoo, for building your gable house, this is a MUST VIEW! This is useful whether you build from scratch or want to enclose a pre-cast Forno-Bravo oven.

(M) I am just starting to use metal studs for framing my igloo and feel far more secure having this guidance available. If you only glance at the photographs you can't help but be impressed by the expertise, detailing, close photography and helpful text at:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/colone...r=8f34&.src=ph


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/colone...98.jpg&.src=ph

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/40b35...ofzgDBFOhR_KnH

===============================================


Ciao,

Marcel
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Last edited by Marcel; 02-19-2006 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Removed unanswered Questions
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2005, 01:16 PM
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Marcel,

I ain't Jim, but I have framed my oven (minus the roof) and can see things more clearly than before as a result. I'll give you my best shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
1- # 7 of 36: "GableEnd Framing" I see something that looks like a metal band around the chimney liner. What is that? ___
A piece of metal track or stud cut to link the two rafters together. I believe these are called purlins normally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
2- #8 of 36: "RafterSupport" I see no collar ties. Would it be a mistake to include a few? ___
I am laying my roof out differently and I am using collar ties to give more support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
3- #9 of 36: "RidgeBeam" Your ridge beam has a vertical support that goes through a factory pre-punched hole. Could we simply screw it using a flap without using the hole? ___
I don't see that in this pic.. but maybe I need to look more closely. Those holes are not intended for attaching, but for running electric, etc.. I screwed everything together metal to metal, using a lot more track than Jim did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
4- #10 of 36: "RafterRidge" You have already attached the cement board to the walls. Is this for early diagonal bracing? __ Could that be delayed until the roof framing is completed? ___ I want to install 2 electrical boxes on one wall. Do I cut the holes for 2 weathertight boxes before attaching the cement board? ___
You always cut holes in the wallboard before attaching if you have the choice. It's just easier. The stability of attaching walls comes in really handy when your working on the roof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
5- #12 of 36: "RafterBirdsmouth". How did you establish the correct angle for this cut? ___
We started with the desire for a 30 degree roof slope and eyeballed it until we liked it. Then I freehanded with a marker and holding the metal framing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
6- #13 of 36: "RafterRidgeDetail" You seem to have spaced two (2) rafters extra closely together here. Is that necessary? ___
It's clearly (to me because I'm dealing with it) for supporting the chimney flue. This is very similar to what I'm doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
7- #14 of 36: "RafterBracing" I can see the top flue brace but I can't visualize the "Lower one extends to far rafter which overhangs slab beyond walls". Any suggestions? ___
?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
8- #15 of 36: "Backwall" What size Durock sheets did you use, and how did you cut them? __
They are sold in 3x5 and 4.8 sheets. I bought the 3x5 purely because it MUCH easier to handle them. Ideally you want as few seams as possible, so you go for the layout that will give you the fewest seams to finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
9- #16 of 36: "RafterTail". I would like to have even greater tail overhang than you show. Is this problematic? ___
Depends on what you put on the rafter tail. I want to go out about 12 inches, but I know I need to be careful lest the weight of the durock (if that's what I use) bends the framing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
10- #17 of 36: "TrialRoof" This shows the edges of the rafters. The next photo, #18 of 36, shows the "Fascia" but I don't understand how you attached it to those edges. It says, "screwed to the rafter tails" but not if you first bent some kind of flap.
? The fascia board looks to me like track, which is what I intend on using. Track has 'tabs'. I may attack some thin wood for the texture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
11- #19 of 36: "FrontFacade" Is the roof fascia wood? ___, cement board? ___, metal stud? ___
Looks like wood or fake wood to me. Personal choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
12- #21 of 36: "DeadCorner" It appears you used durock in the corners and only duct tape to secure it. Is that correct? ____
Pretty sure he mentioned this before (as a yes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
13- #23 of 36: "Purlins" Are these the short pieces between the roof rafters? ___
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
14- #24 of 36: "WatertightNail". Is this truly a "nail"? ___ How did you drive it without bending the sheet metal studs? ___
I would prefer to use a screw type that I found for metal framing, but a nail can puncture these quite easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
15- #25 of 36: "OnduraVentstrip". Is this necessary since no one will live in this structure? ___ I would like to consider alternate roofing material such as "ChemShake", or "CalShake". Would that be a mistake? ____
Keep critters out is my motto. You don't want birds nesting in there or squirrels burying their nuts in your perlite! Venting IS important however, because good venting will extend the life of your roofing materials.

I think you could use any roofing material you wanted. We're considering a metal roofing material that we might put on our house in a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
16- #26 of 36: "EndView" Do I see a narrow piece of wood supporting the vent strip? ___
?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
17- #27 of 36: "2ndTileRow". Here you mention standard galv roofing nails. I'm still puzzled how they secured fiberglass? to metal studs without damaging the studs. Could we use short sheetmetal screws instead?
They would simply puncture the studs. I agree with you though.. I would tend to want to use screws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
18- #28 of 36: "TrimTile" Are you using a utility knife?
Sure looks like it to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
19- #29 of 36: "Chimney" Again, here 'I see something that looks like a metal band around the chimney liner. What is that? ___'
Strategically placed purlins to support the chimney.
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2005, 04:43 PM
Marcel's Avatar
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Default Band around clay tile is not a stud between rafters

#83

(M) Thanks, Tarik, for your input.

(M) I probably did not describe the band around the clay liner very well. In the photo, it does not appear to be attached to anything. What I was trying to describe looks nothing like sheet metal but more like a 1/4" copper tube.

(M) Tarik, I'm exploring using (if I can locate it here) siding made from a Durock-Wonderboard- Hardibacker type material which would emulate wood but which is made of cementitious material reinforced with some kind of fiber. I think it may even be available in color. It is fireproof and water resistant. If I can get it I think I'll coat the Hearth stand in colored stucco but use these cement "ship-lap" to emulate wood. What do you, or anyone else think about that? ___

(M) Here is a single image of the copper leaf of which I spoke in a "private" sending to you:



(M) Note the 1/4" copper tubing which is a kind of faux vine tendril.

Ciao,

Marcel
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:05 AM
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Marcel - I would avoid using durock or wonderboard as it tends to crumble very easy after it is cut. It works well for tile because the thin set fills the voids. I think you would be safer using the hardibacker product. Along these lines, and I know this has come up before, but what is the problem with using standard wood products? After the dome is completely insulated the temperture must be safe enough to frame and side with wood. Or am I missing something.

Les...
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2005, 09:13 AM
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Default Hardibacker seems best from Spec. comparisions, too.

#84

(L) Marcel - I would avoid using durock or wonderboard as it tends to crumble very easy after it is cut. It works well for tile because the thin set fills the voids. I think you would be safer using the hardibacker product.

(M) I am also leaning in this direction. They make siding in various configurations as well as the panel products.

(L) Along these lines, and I know this has come up before, but what is the problem with using standard wood products? After the dome is completely insulated the temperture must be safe enough to frame and side with wood. Or am I missing something.

Les...

(M) I don't think you're missing anything. I prefer to stick with masonry partly because I don't have any easy way to secure a treated wood mudsill to my Hearth Stand, but also because I think that masonry will be more resistant to the elements.

Ciao,

Marcel
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2005, 10:09 AM
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i used durarock (1/2" x 3' x 5') pieces for my enclosure, and it wasn't all that crumbly. just like sheetrock, trying to land screws from two adjoining panels into the same stud results in some potentially crumbly edges, but i just sistered in extra studs where neccesary.

i thought about wood siding on top of the durarock to match the structure behind it, but think i will stick with masonry as well.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2005, 08:01 PM
Marcel's Avatar
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Wink Masonry plank siding for your enclosure

(P) "i thought about wood siding on top of the durarock to match the structure behind it, but think i will stick with masonry as well."

(M) You can have your pizza and eat it, too. I'm considering the use of masonry planks. Check out "HardiPlank"at


http://www.jameshardieeu.com/Plankfeatures.html

================================================== ======

Ciao,

Marcel
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Old 11-24-2005, 08:36 PM
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yes, but the point to me would be to have the total asthetic of masonry. if i want it to look like wood, i'll use wood. it's a good idea though, if you just want the look of wood but don't want to have to put it over cementboard.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2005, 09:06 PM
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Thumbs up Horizontal siding has other advantages

#85

(M) Paul, I would not want to argue aesthetics and can really appreciate your respect for the "real" stuff, be it wood, or masonry.

(M) As an aside, having nothing to do with aesthetics, it occured to me that horizontally placed siding v/s vertical (e.g. board and battens) has four advantages: horizontal obviates the need for sharing studs; it should be inherently stronger as it provides the horizontal bracing that board and battens miss; and so it can be applied (at least on our ovens) without a sheathing underlayment. Finally, horizontal placement pretty much avoids seams.

Ciao,

Marcel
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Last edited by Marcel; 11-25-2005 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Wrong word used.
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