#1  
Old 09-27-2007, 05:56 PM
Les's Avatar
Les Les is offline
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,799
Default Give a shit pills

I'M RUNNING OUT!

I threw this out before, but I am curious - how big of a gap can we tolerate between bricks on the inside before we need mortar? It seems to me that if we clad the exterior of the dome properly (no gasses can escape), we should be fine. It may enhance some spalling but is that any worse than having mortar chip off?

Any input is always appreciated.

Les...
__________________
Check out my pictures here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-27-2007, 06:35 PM
Ken524's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,648
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les View Post
I'M RUNNING OUT!
When I run out, I take a breather for a few days.
__________________
Ken H. - Kentucky
42" Pompeii


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Updated!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:05 PM
Unofornaio's Avatar
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central, California
Posts: 323
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Hey Les,

how big of a gap can we tolerate between bricks on the inside before we need mortar?

> before we need mortar? If you are thinking of laying the bed joint and not the head joints the problem with this as I see it is these areas are going to move differently..which is not a good thing at all.

In addition having a full head joint and the cladding as apposed to just the cladding for the fire to attack, which it will (it reaches everywhere) will extend the life of the oven structure.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:33 PM
Les's Avatar
Les Les is offline
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,799
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Thanks for the reply Uno - actually, I was hoping to avoid all mortar on the inside of the oven and just use it on the back side. I should be able to cut the brick to achieve a 1/8 inch gap maximum (and in many areas, a brick to brick fit). And with that small of a gap, the application of mortar seems to be more of a pain then a benefit. Would you still recommend filling the gap with mortar?

Thanks,

Les...
__________________
Check out my pictures here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-28-2007, 04:22 PM
Unofornaio's Avatar
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central, California
Posts: 323
Default Re: Give a shit pills

I was hoping to avoid all mortar on the inside of the oven and just use it on the back side.
>You do mean just the head joints right? not dry stacking the whole dome?

And with that small of a gap, the application of mortar seems to be more of a pain then a benefit.
> Let me put it this way I have watched and or helped my father build on the order of 50 fireplaces (a mear fraction of what he has done) in my life and built probably half that on my own. He taught me to keep the joints, head an bed, in the fire box to a minimum of between 1/4 and 1/8" using fire-clay and Portland. I cannot recall him or me being called back to fill joints because of deterioration.

As I see this issue, assuming you are just taking about the absence of the head joint, is figuring out if the lack of mortar in just this area is going to:

1. Allow fire to creep in the gap and do more damage than if it were not in there.
2. Allow this area to expand at a different rate than the rest of the bricks surface that is in contact with mortar and what structural effect this will eventually have on the oven.
3. If you "give a S$#!" enough to figure this out or just use mortar


Would you still recommend filling the gap with mortar?
>yes not filling the gap but laying them with mortar. butter the bricks put them in place and strike off the excess.

I'm not trying to be a smart A$$ but deviating this far from traditional methods brings with it questions that may not have answers to them. I know I do not have a definitive answer to how this will effect the structure but my initial instinct tells me its not a good idea.

I DO know that having these materials expand and contract at different rates will eventually do more damage to the oven than putting in the joints and having the need to re-point them at some point..which at 1/8"-1/4" is highly unlikely you will ever have to do.

I think its safe to assume that the areas not restricted by mortar will move at a different rate and direction than those that do not have mortar. Think of it this way if you have a perfect square of bricks divided into 2 parts some with full joints others with partial joints and you were to heat it up I would think it would expand out of square it would have to. The question then becomes will this be detrimental to the structure.. again I do not know but assume it will.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-28-2007, 05:07 PM
Les's Avatar
Les Les is offline
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,799
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Uno,

Thanks for the response. Here is a pic of the delimma. In trying to get the brick as close as possible, there isn't much room for mortar. I thought this was a good thing. Without tearing the coarses down, I'll try and point what I can and point forward, add a liitle mortar to the joints.

Thanks for your insight!

Les...
Attached Thumbnails
Give a shit pills-les-oven-071.jpg  
__________________
Check out my pictures here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-28-2007, 05:47 PM
Unofornaio's Avatar
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central, California
Posts: 323
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Holey $#@ you did mean NO MORTAR.... You should change your build documentation to say "exercise in patients" rather then "building a brick oven"

So strike everything I just said...

If you are going with NO mortar at all don't add it here and there, its either one or the other.

You know pulling this off will automatically put you in the Brick Oven Builders Hall of Fame right??
I see the first endorsement deal after the oven is done.. its coming from MK they want you to promote their diamond blades..then its on to a tour of the local math classes giving speeches on calculating angles titled "math, application for the real world"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,446
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Damn Les, I knew you were building a "cut to fit"; but this...this... In my simple mind, I was thinking of something similar to what I did - minimal joints (around 1/8" on the sides). Your the master.....unbelievably precise work.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-28-2007, 07:35 PM
Les's Avatar
Les Les is offline
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,799
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Thanks Guy's, appreciate the comments. RT, in regard to touring math classes - that's where I ran out of pills. My plans started flying out the window. The tolerances of the brick, and then the saw.... Harbor Freight needs to sell a "brick mill". Then we can treat these damn things like they were a chunk of metal. It would be a beautiful thing, but it only exist in Les land...

Les...
__________________
Check out my pictures here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2007, 07:53 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 257
Default Re: Give a shit pills

Les,

What type of mortar are you using? I’m using a pre-mixed air-set refractory mortar, which the manufacturer says should be applied as thinly as possible (max 2mm) and the bricks laid up by rubbing and/or tapping into position to achieve as much brick to brick contact as possible.

Personally, I wouldn’t worry too much about the thin joints if you’re using something similar. See a couple of photo’s below. One is of my first few rings and the second where I joined two brick pieces together – can’t get much thinner than this!

Your cutting looks fantastic! Great fun, what?

Cheers, Paul.
Attached Thumbnails
Give a shit pills-dsc_0212-medium-.jpg   Give a shit pills-dsc_0131-medium-.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC