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Old 10-19-2009, 07:28 PM
WaWaZat's Avatar
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Default Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

Well shaping the mesh certainly isn't as easy as the insulation! Right now I'm just laying the mesh over the insulation, trying to keep an igloo shape. Conforms ok except a bit more difficult where the mesh overlaps... it's tough to keep the mesh from tangling in the overlap and getting it to hug the insulation. That and on the entryway, in front of the dome... especially on top between the dome and chimney... it's a little hard keeping the mesh down where it's fairly tightly shaped.

So my questions are;

The mesh right up against the insulation in most areas is correct procedure, right?

Should I consider securing the mesh somehow or will the stucco work help me there?

Also, I'm assuming I can make up some of the finer detail with the stucco as long as I can get the mesh fairly conforming to the insulation (some high & low spots)... am I correct about this?

I've never worked with concrete or stucco before... will the stucco help keep the mesh up against the insulation (vertically) on the bottom where it meets the top of the stand (without securing the mesh by other means)? How sticky is bonding cement (I'll be using Quikrete Surface Bonding Cement)? Once applied along the bottom edge, will it stay as I'm working on the rest of the dome? Right now in working with the mesh, working in other areas - such as the top - has a tendency to move the mesh away from the insulation (pic 1 shows this) so that I have to keep pushing it back. Just concerned of this will be an issue when applying the stucco.

Attached are a couple pix of my progress.

Any suggestions on completing this stage are appreciated!
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Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0981.jpg   Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0982.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2009, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

If you make lots of slices you can fold it over on itself to achieve 3D curves (like a dome)...not that I have any familiarity with the workability of that mesh. I'm just referring to methods of wrapping a sheet over a curved surface.
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kebwi View Post
If you make lots of slices you can fold it over on itself to achieve 3D curves (like a dome)...not that I have any familiarity with the workability of that mesh. I'm just referring to methods of wrapping a sheet over a curved surface.
Right... darting I believe it's called. That I have under control... just a pain to get it to lay right where they overlap.

Anyone that can answer my questions above is appreciated. I'm back on it in the morning... hoping to get the concrete going real soon since we're having a bout of decent weather here in Chicago... and you never know how long that will last here!
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

Quote:
Should I consider securing the mesh somehow or will the stucco work help me there?
some members have secured the mesh with tapcons along the base,as well as metal strapping, I put vermicrete over my mesh first, then SBC, the vermicrete held the mesh in place where it wouldnt stay by itself..
Quote:
The mesh right up against the insulation in most areas is correct procedure, right?
yes, as close as you can get it, Its not that critical that it has to be touching.. You will be able to form the shape well after as you suggest...

hope this helps
Cheers
Mark
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

Okay I see what you did there, your photos did a good job explaining what you did. I did something similar but I used chicken wire and I wrapped it pretty snugly around the dome. To get the curves right I found it easier to pinch the mesh and fold it over itself than trying to cut/snip the mesh. I found pushing on one side of the dome caused the other side to bulge out. It is the kind of thing you find funny when you are a spectator but not when you're the guy trying to get the job done. I did the base coat in two parts. I did the top of the dome downwards making sure to really push the stucco mix through the mesh and then going back with a thinner coat on the outside of the mesh to make sure the mesh is encapsulated in cement. You're creating a shell so you want it to be self supporting. I let the top dry and then came back two days later and did the sides of the dome up to the previous cap. I also took the advice of a mason supplier and added plastic fibers to the base coat so when I scratched the wet surface in preparation for the second coat the fibers added a little extra reinforcement.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

I sort of did the same as you, but I used wire mesh covered with screen and then filled the whole thing with vermiculite. On top of that I added chicken wire and stuccoed the whole thing.

I had problems with the wire mesh staying in place and moving around too.

So what I did was take some sheet rock screws, course thread, and screwed them into the mortar joints. It takes a bit of patience but it can be done. Then I used tie wire (for concrete) and secured the wire mesh to the screws with the tie wire.

Not all of the screws will hold but keep trying until you get enough to do the job.

Edit: OOPS. I just saw you had a refractory cast dome. So no mortar joints. You might try "gluing" some eye screws to your dome with refractory mortar........ and then attaching wires to those.
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Last edited by asudavew; 10-29-2009 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Refractory oven, not brick... oops
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

I ended up using drywall screws around the perimeter, along the bottom, into the insulation board to hold the mesh where I wanted it. Then I did a lot of overlapping, darting and, using the thin wire that came wrapped around the hardware cloth that held the roll in place, I cut very short pieces and tied down all corners, etc, where I needed to hold down & secure a piece of mesh to another. I used 2 prs of needle nosed pliers to twist & pull tight the wire stitches and cut excess with side cutters. A very tedious project! Check out my pix.

...and pix of the prodotto finito too!!
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Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0987.jpg   Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0986.jpg   Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0991.jpg   Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0992.jpg   Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation-img_0993.jpg  

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Old 10-29-2009, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

Nice pattern, looks great!
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

Next time, skip the wire mesh. You can apply most stuccos directly to the vermiculete and it will stay in place OK.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Securing & Shaping Wire Mesh Over Insulation

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Originally Posted by Neil2 View Post
Next time, skip the wire mesh. You can apply most stuccos directly to the vermiculete and it will stay in place OK.
Didn't use vermiculite. The mesh helped me w/the shape... as opposed to doing it over the blanket. But in some ways, shaping may have been easier w/no mesh. Not to mention the time that would have been saved on the mesh. I wanted to be sure it was reinforced well... but maybe not necessary with the fibers in the Surface Bonding Cement.
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