#1  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:23 PM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Perth, Wesern Australia
Posts: 178
Default Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

Hey All,

Have been a guest on these forums for sometime now and have finally decided to go for it.
Rather than going for the standard concrete/brick base im planning to have a full frame welded together. Once thats completed i plan on covering it with compact laminate (LCL) in a brushed stainless colour.

The frame will also include a bbq and a bar fridge recess. I have attached a draft with a rough outline of how i want it to look.

The setup will be against the fence on the side of my patio area and this beings forth my question.

The furthest i want the frame to stick out would be 1.5metres (4.92 feet).
Q1 - So what would be the suggested width so that i can utilize more space for the kitchen prep area?

Q2- The metal framework will contain a floor/sidewalls so that i can poor concrete directly into it.. do i still need a concrete base or can i skip directly to the vermiculite? If so how thick of a layer is recommended.

Q-3 What is the recommended height if i plan on building a 36-42inch pompeii. 900mm will be my bbq/prep area, im presuming it would look better if it was all the same height. Is this high enough?

Apologies if this is all been asked before.. which im guessing it has..

Regards

Chris
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DFW area, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidding View Post
Hey All,

Have been a guest on these forums for sometime now and have finally decided to go for it.
Rather than going for the standard concrete/brick base im planning to have a full frame welded together. Once thats completed i plan on covering it with compact laminate (LCL) in a brushed stainless colour.

The frame will also include a bbq and a bar fridge recess. I have attached a draft with a rough outline of how i want it to look.

The setup will be against the fence on the side of my patio area and this beings forth my question.

The furthest i want the frame to stick out would be 1.5metres (4.92 feet).
Q1 - So what would be the suggested width so that i can utilize more space for the kitchen prep area?

Q2- The metal framework will contain a floor/sidewalls so that i can poor concrete directly into it.. do i still need a concrete base or can i skip directly to the vermiculite? If so how thick of a layer is recommended.

Q-3 What is the recommended height if i plan on building a 36-42inch pompeii. 900mm will be my bbq/prep area, im presuming it would look better if it was all the same height. Is this high enough?

Apologies if this is all been asked before.. which I'm guessing it has..

Regards

Chris
Good luck on your planning and build

You will find the information necessary to calculate the hearth size in the pompeii oven plans. Roughly, the width of the stand will be the width of the floor of the oven, plus 9 inches for the width of the bricks on each side, plus insulation, plus stucco/finish coat. The depth is nearly the same, with some differences for the length of the oven landing.

Hearth height is discussed here (Hearth Height and operator ratio science!). My hearth height is among the highest and I have no misgivings about it.

Quote:
Q2- The metal framework will contain a floor/sidewalls so that i can poor concrete directly into it.. do i still need a concrete base or can i skip directly to the vermiculite? If so how thick of a layer is recommended.
You have mixed a couple terms above and I'm not exactly sure what you mean (confused by CONCRETE BASE & VERMICULITE sentence). You will need some sort of support on the bottom (usually a concrete slab on grade) of the oven stand.

Pouring a concrete support (In lieu of blocks) for the oven hearth sounds good to me, just be sure to reinforce it with steel. My advice to you has been written in this thread (A newbies survey of the Forno Bravo treasures hiding in the archives). there are several good references in there. Its late here and I'm too tired to do a good job this time of the morning to spell it out again.
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Last edited by Lburou; 01-13-2011 at 10:11 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:33 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Perth, Wesern Australia
Posts: 178
Default Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

Thankyou so much for taking the time to respond, appreciate the links to the information aswell.

I will be constructing the stand out of metal, this will have a sheet accross the top and 100m side walls so i can poor concrete into it.. does that make sense now?

basically i was wondering if it was still a requirement to have a concrete base considering the metal structure should hold the oven no problems.

Can i just put it a refractory base.. (vermiculite mix?) and lay my firebricks on that?
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:40 AM
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I don't know how much weight your metal floor would hold....If it will hold the weight, OK. Yes, It could work to serve as the bottom of a concrete form for a vemiculite/concrete insulative layer. 1500-2000 pounds is a lot of weight, and ANY furure sagging will crack and ruin your oven.

I was concerned about what you will set the legs of the stand on....? Needs to be a strong, level base at ground level.

You will need more expertise than I have to calculate minimum strength required to hold the hearth in place for eternity.

Personally, I'd put a two layer hearth in there (structural, reinforced concrete and insulating layer) for insurance. Reinforce the sides too. I have seen a thread from down under where the man used a lot of impressive metal components for the oven base construction....Don't know where it is or how to find it. He was in a business where he had easy access to the metal.

How are you planning to keep the metal frame out of the elements to deter oxidation?

Regards,

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DFW area, Texas, USA

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Old 01-14-2011, 12:54 PM
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 226
Default Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

Check out this link

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f2/m...ven-14838.html (Metal Stand and Oven)

This guy didn't use a concrete base for his just cement boards.

Use the search feature I'm sure there'll be many over ovens made on metal stands. Go to the photo gallery section and check out some of the pics there, you might find a metal stand or two.

Good luck with your build and welcome to the site.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:23 PM
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Location: Perth, Wesern Australia
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Default Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lburou View Post
I don't know how much weight your metal floor would hold....If it will hold the weight, OK. Yes, It could work to serve as the bottom of a concrete form for a vemiculite/concrete insulative layer. 1500-2000 pounds is a lot of weight, and ANY furure sagging will crack and ruin your oven.

I was concerned about what you will set the legs of the stand on....? Needs to be a strong, level base at ground level.

You will need more expertise than I have to calculate minimum strength required to hold the hearth in place for eternity.

Personally, I'd put a two layer hearth in there (structural, reinforced concrete and insulating layer) for insurance. Reinforce the sides too. I have seen a thread from down under where the man used a lot of impressive metal components for the oven base construction....Don't know where it is or how to find it. He was in a business where he had easy access to the metal.

How are you planning to keep the metal frame out of the elements to deter oxidation?

Regards,

I work for a mining company and we own a drill rig manufacturing company. I have access to the leftover metals from rig construction. I also have the engineering/drawing team working on the plans before it gets constructed.

We can rustproof/paint the frame upon completion in our spray shop.

this thing will be over the top constructed and should last a minimum 20 years... the base anyways.

i will also be covering in compact laminate which is 100% water proof, so it wont see the elements at all.

I think i'll skip the concrete re-inforced layer as it just seems like wasted weight.
Might research into the cement boards aswell!

Thanks guys
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:25 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chidding View Post
I work for a mining company and we own a drill rig manufacturing company. I have access to the leftover metals from rig construction. I also have the engineering/drawing team working on the plans before it gets constructed.

We can rustproof/paint the frame upon completion in our spray shop.

this thing will be over the top constructed and should last a minimum 20 years... the base anyways.

i will also be covering in compact laminate which is 100% water proof, so it wont see the elements at all.

I think I'll skip the concrete re-inforced layer as it just seems like wasted weight.
Might research into the cement boards aswell!

Thanks guys
Sounds like you have a plan. People don't work long in environments like yours with out good sense, I'm not going to be concerned with your decisions

You've touched on a gap in my education....What is compact laminate?
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DFW area, Texas, USA

If you are thinking about building a brick oven, my advice is
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Our One Meter Pompeii Oven album is
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Last edited by Lburou; 01-14-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2011, 06:22 AM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Perth, Wesern Australia
Posts: 178
Default Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

Lburou.. basically its a durable decorative panel made from thermosetting resins,
homogeneously reinforced with cellulose fibres and manufactured under high pressure and temperature. So basically its resistant to dents/water/graffiti.. normally used for public toilets/showers...


Sitting with the drawing team in 2 days time to knock out the plans!
Definately going to be making a build thread!
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:49 AM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 102
Default Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

I think I understand. You will have a plate steel table that will be the base for your oven, correct? Great, especially since you can do it cheaply. The only thing I would recommend is make sure your oven base, the base under the firebrick oven floor, is really well insulated. I did the portland & vermiculite mixture for mine. Anyway, my point is that if the floor is not well insulated, really well insulated, it will suck the heat out of your oven. Since everything sits on top of it, you can't go back and throw on more insulation. I also did four layers of insulation blanket over the dome (I bought too much) but the upside is the stucco exterior is always the same temps as the outside air no matter how hot the inside of the oven is.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Pompeii Style, Perth WA (help)

DimTex,

What final thickness did your four layers of blanket add up to?

John
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