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Old 09-19-2005, 08:59 AM
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Question Some Steel Stud Specs. Sought

#26

(M) There is a limited amount of information available at:

http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_ov...led_house.html

for help on constructing a gabled "house" enclosure for the Pompeii (igloo) oven I am building but I have never before worked with steel studs. There are also great photos available of Jim Hatch's work with steel studs but unfortunately there is no detailed guidance.

(M) If you have had experience with steel studs, would you point me to an on-line source &/or offer original text that could help a "Newbie" with this phase of construction? ____

(M) I hope to build a steeper pitched roof than Jim's. I would like my roof to have a 90 degree peak.

Thanks for your input,

Marcel
marceld@efn.org
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2005, 12:25 PM
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Default metal stud framing

Marcel, I used to do that for a living. First is the language, roof pitch is measured in rise/run or the relationship of how many inches and or feet it will rise for a given horizontal run. A common although not very steep is a 4-12 pitch which means it rises 4 inches or feet for every 12 inches or feet of horizontal line. If you want a 90 angle at the top it will be a 12-12 pitch. Not one I would want to climb on, but not bad at all for a bread oven. Sorry, if I am being too long winded here. Now the studs are very cool, but can be difficult to work with until you get to know how they work.
http://www.homestore.com/HomeGarden/...?poe=homestore
Here is a link to a place that has basic info about it although the clamps they are using would be awful. Vice Grip makes a vise grip clamp that is shaped in a small "C" style that works really well for this sort of thing. Of course, that requires buying new tools, but then new tools are a good thing right? Right now, I am resisting the urge to go out and blow a few hudred bucks on a laser level. I know I need one... That, and my laser guided temperature probe... I found a good price on that by the by if anyone wants one...
Peace
Chad

Last edited by janprimus; 09-19-2005 at 12:27 PM. Reason: misspellings
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Old 09-19-2005, 03:07 PM
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Default Metal framing: continued, #02

#27

(M) Thanks, Chad for your suggested link to which I went and saw the pictures. A 12-12 pitch is what I wanted to write but was unsure of the format.

(M) I see that the HomeStore site uses spring clamps. Unless you say that the quick-release small friction loaded clamps are a bad idea, I'll use those instead. It seems the clamps are only used during the drilling to keep both metals pieces tightly together.

(M) The HomeStore assumes there is already a ceiling for a top plate. In my case I will be building the igloo enclosure from the Hearth slab up so I assume that I simply lay a channel above the sole plate. I assume that the sole plate is attached to the Hearth slab with concrete screws and that holes have been predrilled with a masonry bit in that slab to accomodate them.

(M) I have only enough room for the 2-1/2" metal studs. I assume that they are attached in a similar manner to the 3-1/2".

(M) If any of my assumptions are incorrect, please let me know. My biggest concern is how to attach the roof joists. I will pour perlite over the dome so I guess that collar ties would not interfere and would add structural stability to the entire "dog house".
================================================== ====

(M) You mentioned buying a laser level for a few hundred bucks. That seems an exorbitant price. Harbor Freight has laser levels on a tripod for about $25. Check them out at www.harborfreight.com
You can order on-line.

(M) As to the:

(C) .... "laser guided temperature probe... I found a good price on that by the by if anyone wants one...".

(M) I might buy one if I can get "the friendly price" so if you reply to this post, kindly advise about your source.

Ciao,

Marcel
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel
#27

(M) I see that the HomeStore site uses spring clamps. Unless you say that the quick-release small friction loaded clamps are a bad idea, I'll use those instead. It seems the clamps are only used during the drilling to keep both metals pieces tightly together.

(C) You know Marcel, for what you are doing, they might just be the ticket.
I am speaking from a production standpoint where you have to do it all day every day and you can ill afford tools that are not going to last a long long time. I am also a bit of a tool junkie.

(M) The HomeStore assumes there is already a ceiling for a top plate. In my case I will be building the igloo enclosure from the Hearth slab up so I assume that I simply lay a channel above the sole plate. I assume that the sole plate is attached to the Hearth slab with concrete screws and that holes have been predrilled with a masonry bit in that slab to accomodate them.

(C) The bottom plate is indeed attached to the slab. Predrilling the holes is a good idea, and you might want to use a glued inlead anchor or something like that if you are anywhere near the outside edge of your slab, it would be a drag to have a chunk of it break off from too much expansive pressure. And yes, you will just put on a top plate and screw it to the studs same as on the bottom plate. You probably want to screw both sides of the top plate just to make it a bit more stout.
Yes the 2 inch studs wqill work just the same as the 3.

(M) If any of my assumptions are incorrect, please let me know. My biggest concern is how to attach the roof joists. I will pour perlite over the dome so I guess that collar ties would not interfere and would add structural stability to the entire "dog house".

I think you are on the right trail Marcel. As for the trusses, if they are wood, just screw up from the bottom of the top plate into the wood, if they are metal, just screw down from the truss into the top plate. It should be pretty easy.
Bon Chance
Chad
================================================== ====

(M) You mentioned buying a laser level for a few hundred bucks. That seems an exorbitant price. Harbor Freight has laser levels on a tripod for about $25. Check them out at www.harborfreight.com
You can order on-line.

(C) Well yes, but an automatic leveling rotating level is so much more useful... Remember that tool geek thing.

(M) I might buy one if I can get "the friendly price" so if you reply to this post, kindly advise about your source.
http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDi...kw=raytek_st20
89 bucks! up to 750 should do the trick.
Bon Chance
Chad
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:31 PM
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marcel,
i used to do a bit of sheet metal work, and in this was included some metal stud framing. buy a metal cutoff blade for your saw, and some tongs (pliers made for bending tabs of metal).

it takes looking at one a few times to figure out the cut, but basically, you cut the stud an inch and a half longer than you need on both ends. on the flat side of the stud (the 3 1/2" face) cut in to your actual measurement along the 90 deg. edges. you can do this with tin snips if you want to kill your wrists, or you can just zap it with your saw blade. now you have 3 inch-and-a-half tabs, which can be bent in at 90 deg. angles, giving you your 2 x 4 "end".

sorry if that is a confusing explanation. doing that isn't always neccesary, but helps considerably wherever you need that end face to connect your framing.

also, i bought my laser guided infrared thermometer offline, following jim's link an another thread. the automotive version was $53 i believe.
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:27 PM
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Question Metal framing: continued, #03 and Styrofoam alignment

#28

(M) Thank you Chad, and Paul for your helpful guidance on working with metal studs. Chad, I would use only metal because of the proximity to the dome. Paul, I will use the 2-1/2" studs as I have only a little extra room at the back perimeter of my Hearth Slab. Paul, your explanation was quite clear. I went to "Dietrich's" URL and found some pictures as well to help a Newbie visualize the operations. They make metal studs.

================================================== ======

(M) I'm cutting my styrofoam today and find that not every vane lines up that well. Is this critical? ____

Thanks,

Ciao,

Marcel
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:18 PM
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do you mean that you didn't cut them all exactly the same? that doesn't really matter unless you want a perfectly even dome. when i started fitting all of the extras in after piecing thefirst two together, i would stick my measuring tape exatly at the joint where it would land in the middle, measure out to the edge, and cut the flat (inside) end of the vane to accomodate. this way, you keep your outside curve consistent and can fit them all in tight.
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulages
marcel,
it takes looking at one a few times to figure out the cut, but basically, you cut the stud an inch and a half longer than you need on both ends. on the flat side of the stud (the 3 1/2" face) cut in to your actual measurement along the 90 deg. edges. you can do this with tin snips if you want to kill your wrists, or you can just zap it with your saw blade. now you have 3 inch-and-a-half tabs, which can be bent in at 90 deg. angles, giving you your 2 x 4 "end".
IMHO If you are capping the end with the channel, you dont need a "2x4 end". That sound like a lot of extra work. We always just used compound angle tin snips which give you a heck of a lot of cutting power. Beside, with the cut-off blade, you have to wear goggles and eye protection. That works great if you are cutting whole bundles of studs .

[/QUOTE]also, i bought my laser guided infrared thermometer offline, following jim's link an another thread. the automotive version was $53 i believe.[/QUOTE]

Please tell us where.

Chad
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2005, 11:00 AM
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if you look at the older threads in 'heat management', you'll find one asking "what is cooking temperature?". in this thread, thermometers were discussed, and jim posted several links. here's the one i bought:

Quote:
This is a mechanics oriented thermometer designed to check the temp of engine components with a max of 932F. http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mas52224.html $53 Looks & specs an awful lot like the BonJour culinary one.
it works great, and i've even used it for lots of other things like measuring the input and output water temperature in the radiant heated floor i just finished installing in my barn...and more important things like checking to see how "hot" people are.

and you are right that you often do not need the tabs on the metal studs, but sometimes it works well to have that extra something to screw into.
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Old 09-21-2005, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulages
...and more important things like checking to see how "hot" people are.
absolutely correct. i've found mine to be a great party toy. once you bring it out, people will want to measure the temp of their tounges, their ears, their breasts ...
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