#1  
Old 03-09-2009, 04:27 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4
Default New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

OK - I have been a 'lurker' to these forums for a while, mostly gaining ideas and knowledge before taking the plunge - i wanted to learn as much as possible before making costly mistakes (I have never laid a brick in my life, so this is very foreign to me)

I have seen various designs within these forums, and one which is exactly the same as I wish to build (Aceves outdoor kitchen, 'L' or Corner shaped)

As I have no idea on how many blocks, firebricks etc... needed - I was hoping to knock up a design - SketchUp seems very handy...

Does anyone know of a CAD/PhotoShop type applications that will show me different stages of a build? eg: using 'layers' (think of transparancies), start with Slab, then a new layer for block-work, another for oven slab/hearth etc...

Ideally I would like this to be scaleable and rotateable... I do not know if this exists... but hoping something like this will help me visualise my project (in correct dimensions) - which will ensure I order correct quantities of product

If i can visualise the project, its easier to get 'buy-in' from the better-half...

I have seen the various brick/block and Dome calculators link from previous threads - very handy (esp. since this is far from my 'comfor zone')

Are there any tips, comments of advise, things you would do different if given the chance when setting out as a first timer?

Lastly - when pouring the slab... should I hire a company to do the slab in one hit, or is it OK to pour, mix, pour etc...
I guess i'm asking... how long does it take to dry - will intermediate mixes added affect the strength? There will be Rio embedded of course, but will separate pours affect the overall strength?

I'm sure I will have many more questions in the coming days/weeks/months...

Any thoughts/comments will be greatly appreciated
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2009, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

Most CAD applications (I use ashlar vellum) are expensive and hard to learn. This is why sketch-up is such a good product, it's free (unless you need DXF export) and intuitive to learn and use. If you are going to take the time and trouble to learn real CAD, learn autocad, it's the industry standard.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

Thanks for the tip DMun

Any ideas for the question I posed above?

"Lastly - when pouring the slab... should I hire a company to do the slab in one hit, or is it OK to pour, mix, pour etc...
I guess i'm asking... how long does it take to dry - will intermediate mixes added affect the strength? There will be Rio/Re-Bar embedded of course, but will separate pours affect the overall strength?"
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:28 PM
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Location: Gilbert, AZ
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

That's a lot of bags of concrete to mix by hand. We used 34 80lb bags for just the foundation for my L-shaped outdoor kitchen. One bag of concrete for every 1 1/3 cores filled. Another 21 or so bags for hearth pour. That is a lot to mix by hand. I'd rent or buy a small mixer--that's plenty fast enough for a strong foundation and hearth. After mixing all the concrete for the cores in a wheelbarrow, I'm very glad we rented a mixer for the hearth pour!

To calculate how many blocks to buy, I just drew it all out on graph paper. I've worked a bit with sketchup, but I'm still on the very steep part of the learning curve, and it keeps force-shutting down, so I got impatient and went back to pencil and paper.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

We got a truck to deliver the concrete for my foundation (I made it a bit deep and it's pretty big), but we (well, my husband did) mixed the hearth slab by hand from bags. While it was a lot of work, it's very possible. I was distributing the concrete in the form while he was mixing and shovelling. I think we used 12 bags- and none of it was close to dry before we were finished.

So, if you don't mind the work involved, you can certainly mix and pour your own. Just work it into the corners and sides well so you don't have voids, but you'd have to do that no matter how you get your concrete.

And as for drawing programs, well, I'm still using graph paper and a pencil... works fine for me, and if you want to post the pic, you can take a picture of it and do that.
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

Bartman,
Do a little research. Read a few threads on some of our member's builds. There are many ways to skin this cat, and you should will benefit greatly by having read through as many as you can stomach. Many of us discussed most of your concerns ad nauseum. All of your questions will be answered and you will likely come up with many others as you go.

I did a corner install. Christo did as well. There are others out there, but I can't think of the builders off the top of my head. My thread - George's Pompeii Progress (or something along those lines) is probably on the second or third page of the Pompeii Oven Construction Forum section. You can do a search at the top of this page for Christo's Cucina to find his.
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

Actually, mine's a corner too. Just not as ambitious as some people's.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chula Vista
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

I'm a concrete contractor. Find a rental yard they rent the u-cart mixer that holds 1 yard of concrete. It gives a real ready-mixed product. In San Diego it's about $120 a yard.(remember everything is more expensive down here) The problem with bags is that you don't get a good mix and they are very thin on cement. If you do use bags with a site mixer add an extra shovel of portland cement per bag. As far as time before it sets you should have no problems. It usually takes about 3-4 hours before I can put the final trowel on. The extra cement helps lessen the set time.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: New Starter - Corner Kitchen advise/Guidence

I have poured cement that is truck delivered as a home owner and you will have to order a minimum of 3 yards (where we live) to make it worth there while you will need to call and find out there minimum and or a delivery charge. Next the truck is very heavy and will make tracks in the yard, in most cases they only want you to have the truck for one hour so if you have to wheel barrow to the location it can be very frustrating to rush. I found this converter and used it to see the amount of cement that I would need, hope it is of some help and good luck.

Concrete Slab Calculator - The Concrete Network
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