#1  
Old 07-14-2007, 06:12 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11
Default High Heat Mortar Mix question

Hello, I have conflicting formulas (by different dealers/people etc..)
One mix is this:
1 part cement, 1 part fireclay
another is:
1 part cement, 1 part fireclay, 10-12 parts sand

Seems like an awful big difference in mixes, or is it just me???
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2007, 09:52 AM
dmun's Avatar
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 4,216
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

Here's the high heat mortar primer, which gives two recipes:

http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_ov...at_mortar.html

My advice? If you have any leeway in your budget, spend it on a dry refractory mortar mix like Heat-stop, or the Ref-mix that FB sells. It's closely matched to the expansion of the firebricks, and doesn't use portland cement, which isn't fire resistant. As a bonus, it's easy to work with. Heat-stop mixes and spreads like peanut butter.
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  #3  
Old 07-14-2007, 10:27 AM
Unofornaio's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central, California
Posts: 323
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

Thats an interesting fire clay mix I have never used lime..
1-2-6 is what I use.

1-Clay
2-cement
6-sand

Where did the recipe on the primer page come from? Id be interested in the reasoning..sound like some seriously sticky stuff.. which for this build is defiantly a good thing.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:52 AM
Dutchoven's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 931
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

From what I am told the hydrated lime adds stickiness to the mortar in its uncured state and that it sets a little softer and responds to expansion and contraction slightly different. I have also heard that hydrated lime fluxes at a different temperature than that of the portland so when the portland is gone the lime is still there.
The mixture I used for my oven 1/3/1/1, portland/sand/fireclay/lime and that was given me by the grandson of an oven/heater mason from Czechoslovakia.
Any way that is my 2 cents!
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:10 PM
Balty Knowles's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 62
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

From what I've read you should avoid portland cement in the mortar mix but use calcium aluminate.

Calucem the manufacturers of Lumnite gave me the following mix.

2 sand
2 Calcium Aluminate
1 Fire Clay

I used this for the chimney because I ran out of Refmix. It is quite difficult to used except in very small batches. Seems to go off in about 15 minutes.

if you can justify the cost I would highly recommend Refmix

You can check out Calucem on the web, give them a call they're very helpful

http://www.calucem.com/

Hope this helps

Rgds

Balty
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  #6  
Old 07-15-2007, 08:09 PM
Dutchoven's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 931
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

Definitely if you can get calcium aluminate it will be better...it is a bit harder to find however. It will also set sooner and harder than a portland mix and cannot be rehydrated so for a novice bricklayer it will be important to mix small batches so as not to waste it. It will be a bit more difficult to knock apart once the mortar has set a bit but, hopefully you won't have to be concerned with that.
Best
Dutch
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2010, 01:01 PM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: N. KY
Posts: 181
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

Tried a small batch of the 2-2-1 and much better, a little stickier...though still very firm, meaning that when the mortar hits the bricks, it really gets firm fast. I may need to wet them down harder....seems like I can't mash any extra out, making the leveling up difficult.
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2010, 03:14 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,436
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

Wind...
calcium aluminate on ebay.... Secar 71 Calcium Aluminate Cement Refractory - eBay (item 140352762915 end time Jun-13-10 06:52:31 PDT)
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2010, 05:43 PM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: N. KY
Posts: 181
Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

$24 plus shipping for 10lbs!!...that comes out to $215 per bag and I have 7 bags of alum silc to sell if I can't get this recipe to work out...I may go to Lars formula and just use portland.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:48 AM
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Location: Townsville, Nth Queensland,Australia
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Default Re: High Heat Mortar Mix question

I would not buy the stuff on Ebay because it has a short shelf life- about 6 months. You could get it and find that it's already gone off. Buy it from a reputable refractory supplier. It is expensive and tricky to work with- it goes off fast and is quite temperature dependent
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