#1  
Old 09-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2
Default First row of the dome

Hello everyone, I need some advice. We've built the base and the floor of the oven and we are about to start the dome. I'm working with a union mason and he suggested standing the fire brick up on their ends for the first row of the dome. I've attached a couple of photos to show you what I mean.

Has anyone tried this? Does it affect the oven in a negative way. From here, he plans to split the bricks in half and build up the dome.

I have a few concerns, will this be too high of a dome? Is it needed?

Also, one last question, do we use fire bricks for the entire dome? Or, can we use regular bricks near the top. Many thanks, in advance, for your feedback.

First row of the dome-2012-09-13-10.45.46.jpg

First row of the dome-2012-09-13-10.45.38.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:31 AM
Les's Avatar
Les Les is offline
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,842
Default Re: First row of the dome

It's been done. I believe you will need to adjust the curve to maintain a proper height. Hopefully someone that went that route will chime in and give you better advice. The only reason to do this is to give you more room around the perimeter of the oven. I built a 42 and have no issues without the additional vertical space.
__________________
Check out my pictures here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:54 AM
deejayoh's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: First row of the dome

Search for "soldier course". Plenty of people build ovens this way. More common than using sailors (bricks laid on flat side). And use firebrick for the ENTIRE oven. Especially at the top. It is way hotter at the top of the oven than at the floor...

What is your under oven insulation? I ask because it seems like there are posts from lots of people who have a mason build their oven and have trouble getting them to understand the need for insulation under the oven. Can't tell from your pictures but it looks like maybe you have 2" of vermiculite?

You should download and read the Pompeii instructions, if you haven't yet. All of this is covered in there in great detail
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by deejayoh; 09-13-2012 at 09:56 AM. Reason: add comment about firebricks
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:56 AM
texman's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 587
Default Re: First row of the dome

Use firebricks only in the whole dome and vent. Regular bricks will not work. Be sure and use the proper dome height/door size ratios of the performance of the oven will be diminished from optimum. Most builders here go with sailors there because of stability, but it can be done that way with soldiers. You can achieve the same "room" with rows of vertical sailors before you begin the dome transition. You should take a look at Les' build and you will probably change your mind.
Texman
__________________
My Progress:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:57 AM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,076
Default Re: First row of the dome

The issue is not height, it is lateral support. In ovens built like this, you will need external support. The Italians use a pumice mix backed up with wire (not lath) to provide the support. Here is how I did it by making a tensioned band of refractory concrete so that I do not have to rely on the external structure (I am using loose fill so it would have no lateral strength).


It is 42" with a 15" dome height.
Attached Thumbnails
First row of the dome-080512genesoven2.jpg   First row of the dome-081212genesoven1.jpg   First row of the dome-081712genesoven1.jpg   First row of the dome-090312genesoven1.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2012, 11:49 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2
Default Re: First row of the dome

Thank you everyone, very much. I will do some additional searching for solider course. I really appreciate all your help. Many thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-14-2012, 03:57 AM
nissanneill's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,871
Thumbs up Re: First row of the dome

To avoid reinforcing your soldier course, it is recommended to lay them on your base insulation rather than on top of your hearth. This will reduce their effective height bu the thickness of your hearth which id using bricks on their flat would be 3" or 75mm.
There are pics of my build if you want to see my build.
Cheers.

Neill
__________________
Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


Neillís Pompeiii #1

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Neillís kitchen underway

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-14-2012, 07:47 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 26
Default Re: First row of the dome

As Les mentioned, it will impact the curvature of your dome. I went for a flatter dome and used the soldier course to give my dome more of an elliptical shape.

You can build either an elliptical or a spherical dome profile. Please keep in mind that with the ellipse the radius changes with each row.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-14-2012, 02:59 PM
Dino_Pizza's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 1,015
Default Re: First row of the dome

It looks like you've already got your oven floor "locked in" (with mortar around it) so I assume you cannot put the soldier course "around" the floor but will put it "ON" the floor. That's fine, it's how most of us do it now although mine went around the floor, and I built mine 3 yrs ago. Since you are putting your soldier or 1st course "ON" the floor, and if you leave it that full height, unless you are really careful, it's easy to let the dome height creep up too high. You have to be very vigilant at angling each row to keep the dome at 19" to 21" in the middle.

If you choose to use a true soldier course as you pictured it, (bricks on end/standing tall) I would cut an inch or 7/8" angle from the inside to the outside edge to get your dome curve-angle going. But you could also do as others suggested and not use a true soldier, but use a brick cut in half (like you will use on all the subsequent rows) and stack 2 rows before you start angling in or use a slight angle on your 2nd row/ring.

Also, remember there is no need to mortar that 1st course down, onto your oven floor. Just mortar the sides of the soldiers, let whatever drips down to the floor stay, (that you can't get clean up) and what little attachment there is, will break anyway at your 2nd or 3rd firing when the oven is done as it expands. Just don't mortar it to the floor or else you may get unexpected cracking. The weight of the whole dome will keep it in place and or any buttressing at the arches later on.

Good luck,
__________________
"Life is a banquet and most poor sons-of-bitches are starving to death." -Auntie Mame

View My Picasa Web Album UPDATED oct

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My Oven Costs Spreadsheet

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My Oven Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Dino_Pizza; 09-14-2012 at 03:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-14-2012, 04:19 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 398
Default Re: First row of the dome

1821,

What are you looking for in an oven?

A soldier course like you picture is perfect for a low dome Neapolitan style oven. Is that what you are after? If you built a hemispherical dome on top of a soldier course like that you would end up with an oven that is WAY to tall, so if you are after a hemispherical oven this is not the route to go.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brick, dome, masonry, oven building

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mathematical analysis of dome geometry mklingles Design Styles, Chimneys and Finish 53 05-15-2014 03:33 AM
Steel Dome Oven Wiley Other Oven Types 195 01-14-2014 11:06 PM
Monolithic dome vs pre-cast facetted dome. MarkG Newbie Forum 21 03-31-2010 09:44 AM
Igloo style dome insulation Throw Deep Pompeii Oven Construction 19 12-18-2009 02:40 PM
Exterior Dome Construction Bandrasco Pompeii Oven Construction 19 10-26-2008 06:26 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC