#1  
Old 07-07-2014, 07:44 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9
Default Another newbie dough question

Hi all,

I've been practicing with various dough recipes for my newly build WFO. I kind of created my own recipe by taking bits and pieces from other recipes. I think I'm close to something that I'm going to be ultimately happy with, but not quite there yet.

Before I ask my question, please take a look at my ingredients:

2.2# bag Caputo 00 flour
1 g yeast
1 oz salt
20 oz water

(I know, a mix of volume and weight measurements, but that's what I ended up with after experimenting with different recipes.)

Then, my steps:

1. Dissolve yeast in the water (warm). Let sit for 3-5 minutes.
2. Pour yeast into Kitchen Aid mixer.
3. Add flour and mix with dough hook on low for 10 minutes.
4. Add the salt and continue mixing for another 5 minutes.
5. Take dough ball from mixer and let rest on the counter (covered in plastic wrap) for 40 minutes.
6. Make 6 9.5-ounce dough balls.
7. Put dough balls into covered plastic bin. Leave on counter for 4 hours.
8. Put plastic bin into refrigerator overnight.
9. Three hours before cooking, remove bin from refrigerator and put on counter.
10. Hand stretch ball into flat disc, add sauce and toppings, bake in WFO.

Now, here's my issue. :-)

When I look at the dough balls in the plastic bin (right before I'm going to stretch one out), they look nice and smooth...a bit flattened out from when they originally went in, but smooth none the less. However, when I take a ball out of the bin, it turns ugly. It's almost like it goes back to what it looked like when I first took it out of the mixer. I am able to manipulate it as I stretch it into the flat disc, but I'm guessing there's something wrong at this step.

Also, when I stretch it, it doesn't look like the pretty doughs I see in all of the videos. It is very pliable, though, and I have very few holes, if any. It just doesn't stretch nicely and as roundly as I would like. Again, I'm thinking there's a problem with the rise time (fridge or counter) or maybe something else.

Can any one see what I'm doing wrong here?

I know I'm not going to have dough like all of the youtube video chefs I see online, but I'm hoping to figure out what I'm missing here so that I can get close.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:25 AM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,117
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

It all looks correct to me. Are you oiling the plastic tubs? You may also want to try using the balls straight from the fridge, that is how I do it.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:31 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

I am not oiling the tubs. I did try sprinkling tops with flour in a previous batch, but I'm not sure that made a difference. Honestly, it was a different recipe so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Would oil or flour help with the spreading?

So you shape the balls right from the fridge without letting them come to room temperature? I stretches easily? I would think that it would be very elastic (bounce back when you try and shape it). But, what do I know...I'm a newbie. ;-)
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2014, 09:49 AM
hodgey1's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: NW Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 321
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

Hello,

I have a couple of comments on your potential issues. First,I would highly recommend a tried and true recipes available right here on the forum that are bullet proof. Once you become skilled at using a proven recipe then I would suggest messing with it and making it your own if necessary.

Secondly, my guess is, your problem is a combination of a few things. One, letting it rise on the counter for four hours prior to putting it in the refrigerator, I think you maybe exhausting your yeast. As soon as you ball it, put it in the chill chest to slow ferment for a couple of days then pull it out an hour or two prior to use. Slow fermenting your dough will improve your texture and flavor. Two, when I look at your yeast quantity if I'm reading your post correctly that your using 2.2 lbs of flour, the yeast quantity looks too low, I use twice what your recipe says.

When looking at a pizza dough recipe pay attention to the percentages of the ingredients based on weight. My current recipe is using around 67% water to flour ratio. I would highly recommend weighting all your ingredients, but especially your flour and water.

Here is my recipe, substitute what ever flour you want and it will make a great pie but I prefer the high gluten flour.
2 Size: 13-14" pizzas
• 370g High Gluten Flour
• 250g 80 degree water
• 1 tsp rapid rise yeast
• 1.5 tsp fine sea salt
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Last edited by hodgey1; 07-07-2014 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Calculation error
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 400
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

I think the core of your issue in you need oil in your containers. You want enough that you simply flip the container upside down and the dough falls out.

Outside that I will say you've got a lot of techniques going on with that recipe. You are doing a true autolysis, a rest, room temperature fermentation, cold fermentation. If it works for you thats great. If you continue to have issues with it maybe a return to basics is in order. A simple dough mixed in one step, balled and fermented at room temperature for a couple days can make some of the best Neapolitan pizza around.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:28 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I'll start by oiling the bin and see if that helps. If it isn't enough, I'll move on to a simpler recipe and go from there. Thanks again.
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2014, 08:11 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,117
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

True Neapolitan is not cold fermented, they bulk and ball it and keep it all in the range of 68-80 degrees for 8-30 hours. It also depends upon many other factors, like yeast type, proofing trays, etc. Too many variables to even begin.


For typical home use, cold ferment is more predictable and reliable, as well as flexible. The best pizza I have ever had was a sourdough room temp 30 hour done in a home setting, but the workflow is exacting, plus the skill and effort required for the starter. That is why for most people cold fermentation is the best choice: It is easy, predictable and forgiving.
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:33 AM
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Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 103
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

I agree with what everyone here has said. My recommendations would be:
1. Supermarket Yeast (Active Dry/Instant Dry) does not need to be "activated" any longer & is an unnecessary step.
2. Your mix time seems a bit too long, but then again I hand mix my dough.
3. Like everyone else has stated, apply the KISS principle: Keep It Simple,Seriously or if I knew you I would use Stupid.
4. Cold ferment will always yield consistent results unless you have 4 kids going in & out of your refrigerator 50x's daily.
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2014, 06:33 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9
Default Re: Another newbie dough question

OK, so if I go with the cold ferment method for simplicity, how long do I let it rest on the counter (if at all) before splitting up into smaller balls?

And then how long should it sit in the refrigerator once it's been balled?

Thanks!
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:05 AM
hodgey1's Avatar
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Default Re: Another newbie dough question

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfhlad0 View Post
OK, so if I go with the cold ferment method for simplicity, how long do I let it rest on the counter (if at all) before splitting up into smaller balls?

And then how long should it sit in the refrigerator once it's been balled?

Thanks!
Hello,
My method is as soon as the kneading is finished to divide into your portion size, form into a ball and immediately place them in a lightly oil round 2 qt container and into the refrigerator. I also spray oil on top of the dough. I then let them slowly rise over a couple of days but have also done overnight and also up to one week with great results. Pull them out an hour ahead of stretching and your good to go. If you don't have the time for a long ferment, don't refrigerate it and let it rise on the counter and use the same day

As far as the simplicity comment, I don't think a slow, long fermentation process has anything to do with simplicity and actually it's a pain because of storage and such. I'm not a fermentation or baking expert but the changes that occur to the dough using this method are great. I have found that it vastly improves the flavor and also the texture of the dough. I'm sure if controlled, cool temperatures where available to the ancients they would have been using the same method to raise their dough.

The difference between a Ale and a lager beer is one is fermented at room-ish temps and the other is cool fermented at cellar temps. The changed in beer character are profound when the fermentation temps are changed in beer just like dough. "This is a fun test" Drink a cold fermented clean crisp German lager and then pour yourself a fruity English ale and let me know if fermentation temp had any effect. Both are made from the same basic ingredients but are completely different in flavor.
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