#1  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:39 PM
BurntFingers's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ocean County New Jersey
Posts: 137
Question Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

We are about to experiment with sourdough cultures from Italy. They have been cultured from very old bakeries in the Naples region. It should take a while to re-activate the freeze dried culture. We plan on doing one at a time so as to not contaminate them. Have any of you tried this method of leavening your doughs for both pizza and bread?http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/imag...s/confused.gif
Bill & Jeannie
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:41 AM
nissanneill's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,870
Thumbs up Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

Bill,
being relatively new to sourdough cultures, not having much success (as I was not too keen on the taste when compared to normal dried yeast) and then let them starve to death.
However, with this in mind, will the yeast that you are going to re-activate and by feeding them with your home based flours (that I believe have some natural yeasts in them already) and your water (whether tap, mineral or purified/filtered water), will the cultures still maintain the flavors that are bread into the culture in Italy, or will they gradually change to adopt the flavors within your feeding flours?
Just a thought.

Neill
__________________
Prevention is better than cure, - do it right the first time!

The more I learn, the more I realise how little I know


Neillís Pompeiii #1

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Neillís kitchen underway

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-05-2010, 09:51 AM
BurntFingers's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ocean County New Jersey
Posts: 137
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

Quote:
Originally Posted by nissanneill View Post
Bill,
being relatively new to sourdough cultures, not having much success (as I was not too keen on the taste when compared to normal dried yeast) and then let them starve to death.
However, with this in mind, will the yeast that you are going to re-activate and by feeding them with your home based flours (that I believe have some natural yeasts in them already) and your water (whether tap, mineral or purified/filtered water), will the cultures still maintain the flavors that are bread into the culture in Italy, or will they gradually change to adopt the flavors within your feeding flours?
Just a thought.

Neill
We use Caputo 00 flours almost exclusively for our breads and pizzas lately as they seem to work best so that might not be an issue. Our source of the wild yeasts also include an inoculate of symbiotic bacteria that works with the yeast in the same way as wine & beer fermentation interactivity occurs. They said that the freeze dried yeasts are strong enough to overcome any local wild yeasts and will render the flavors of the original sources. We will see. Our water is carbon block filtered deep well water and I don't think it will impact the flavors because the other breads, beer and ale that I make comes out fine. As soon as I get some results I will post them. Our source for the sour dough cultures is Sourdoughs International: sourdough bread starter, sourdough bread recipes, bread machine recipes They also provide cultures from many countries including, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa as well as San Francisco in the US.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:36 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

Recent research seems to suggest that the yeast can stay relatively pure if kept healthy. The bacteria are more troublesome. The original bacteria strain TENDS to hang around but is usually augmented by flour bacteria (maybe no problem with Caputo 00) in this case and local bacteria. This should be an interesting experiment!
Jay
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
BurntFingers's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ocean County New Jersey
Posts: 137
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

Thanks for the information. We will be starting up the cultures in a week or two after our painting is complete and airs out. Whew! Moving all the furniture is the hardest part of that job.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-06-2010, 03:15 PM
Neil2's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 1,374
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

"We are about to experiment with sourdough cultures from Italy."

It may start out that way. Local yeast and bacteria is always in the air and before long your sourdough culture will be from "Ocean County New Jersey".

Last edited by Neil2; 01-06-2010 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-06-2010, 04:43 PM
BurntFingers's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ocean County New Jersey
Posts: 137
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil2 View Post
"We are about to experiment with sourdough cultures from Italy."

It may start out that way. Local yeast and bacteria is always in the air and before long your sourdough culture will be from "Ocean County New Jersey".

Yes, that may be true but if the cultures are strong to start and are fed properly they will not be impacted by those found in the air locally. Why then doesn't baker's commercial freeze dried instant yeast change character and taste? Because it uses maltose and competes with the lactobacilli for that nutrient.
What current scientific data tells us is that it is the complex process of fermentation of paired yeast and lactobacillus working together, will produce the flavors we are seeking. The yeast gives the leavening effect, the texture and the bacteria the sourness.
If we generate enough strong sour dough cultures at the proper conditions and temperatures, the flavors will be the same according to what I've read.
We'll see soon enough, empirically, if it is true.
Maybe the wild yeasts here are something I should cultivate and strengthen and market? If San Francisco can have Candida humilis and Lactobacillus sanfrancisco maybe Ocean County NJ's Candida and L. oceancountynj would make a good tasting leavening agent? Thanks for the idea.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2010, 06:25 AM
BurntFingers's Avatar
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ocean County New Jersey
Posts: 137
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

I've been looking for more info. Found some at: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
Hope it helps ease the confusion.
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-29-2010, 08:49 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 305
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

so I have a sourdough culture and I have activated and it is now ready to use. How much sourdough starter do I use in our standard recipe (500, 325, 10, 6) to replace the 6g of active dry yeast?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:29 PM
MK1 MK1 is offline
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 123
Default Re: Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

Joey,

Rose says to make a SD starter at about 30% of your total flour and water. Skip the yeast altogether, save the salt for the final build. In this case you would subtract 150 flour, 97 of water to mix with your SD, give it your 12-16 hour to mature and then do your final build. I assume you know it takes more time SD vs. yeast.

Mark
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Italian Sourdough Starter dsgreco Pizza 7 12-17-2009 07:09 PM
How can I change recipe from yeast to sourdough? Debbie T Pizza 5 04-11-2009 03:02 PM
San Francisco Style Sourdough MoonshineBaker Hearth Bread and Flatbread 5 02-16-2009 09:31 PM
Big sourdough spring james Hearth Bread and Flatbread 21 11-07-2008 03:15 PM
Sourdough Pizza wlively Pizza 2 12-17-2007 07:28 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC