Sourdough cultures, Camaldoli, Ischia

[BurntFingers]

We are about to experiment with sourdough cultures from Italy. They have been cultured from very old bakeries in the Naples region. It should take a while to re-activate the freeze dried culture. We plan on doing one at a time so as to not contaminate them. Have any of you tried this method of leavening your doughs for both pizza and bread?http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/imag...s/confused.gif
Bill & Jeannie

[nissanneill]

Bill,
being relatively new to sourdough cultures, not having much success (as I was not too keen on the taste when compared to normal dried yeast) and then let them starve to death.
However, with this in mind, will the yeast that you are going to re-activate and by feeding them with your home based flours (that I believe have some natural yeasts in them already) and your water (whether tap, mineral or purified/filtered water), will the cultures still maintain the flavors that are bread into the culture in Italy, or will they gradually change to adopt the flavors within your feeding flours?
Just a thought.

Neill

[BurntFingers]

Originally Posted by nissanneill

Bill,
being relatively new to sourdough cultures, not having much success (as I was not too keen on the taste when compared to normal dried yeast) and then let them starve to death.
However, with this in mind, will the yeast that you are going to re-activate and by feeding them with your home based flours (that I believe have some natural yeasts in them already) and your water (whether tap, mineral or purified/filtered water), will the cultures still maintain the flavors that are bread into the culture in Italy, or will they gradually change to adopt the flavors within your feeding flours?
Just a thought.

Neill

We use Caputo 00 flours almost exclusively for our breads and pizzas lately as they seem to work best so that might not be an issue. Our source of the wild yeasts also include an inoculate of symbiotic bacteria that works with the yeast in the same way as wine & beer fermentation interactivity occurs. They said that the freeze dried yeasts are strong enough to overcome any local wild yeasts and will render the flavors of the original sources. We will see. Our water is carbon block filtered deep well water and I don't think it will impact the flavors because the other breads, beer and ale that I make comes out fine. As soon as I get some results I will post them. Our source for the sour dough cultures is Sourdoughs International: sourdough bread starter, sourdough bread recipes, bread machine recipes They also provide cultures from many countries including, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa as well as San Francisco in the US.

[texassourdough]

Recent research seems to suggest that the yeast can stay relatively pure if kept healthy. The bacteria are more troublesome. The original bacteria strain TENDS to hang around but is usually augmented by flour bacteria (maybe no problem with Caputo 00) in this case and local bacteria. This should be an interesting experiment!
Jay

[BurntFingers]

Thanks for the information. We will be starting up the cultures in a week or two after our painting is complete and airs out. Whew! Moving all the furniture is the hardest part of that job.

[Neil2]

"We are about to experiment with sourdough cultures from Italy."

It may start out that way. Local yeast and bacteria is always in the air and before long your sourdough culture will be from "Ocean County New Jersey".

[BurntFingers]

Originally Posted by Neil2

"We are about to experiment with sourdough cultures from Italy."

It may start out that way. Local yeast and bacteria is always in the air and before long your sourdough culture will be from "Ocean County New Jersey".

Yes, that may be true but if the cultures are strong to start and are fed properly they will not be impacted by those found in the air locally. Why then doesn't baker's commercial freeze dried instant yeast change character and taste? Because it uses maltose and competes with the lactobacilli for that nutrient.
What current scientific data tells us is that it is the complex process of fermentation of paired yeast and lactobacillus working together, will produce the flavors we are seeking. The yeast gives the leavening effect, the texture and the bacteria the sourness.
If we generate enough strong sour dough cultures at the proper conditions and temperatures, the flavors will be the same according to what I've read.
We'll see soon enough, empirically, if it is true.
Maybe the wild yeasts here are something I should cultivate and strengthen and market? If San Francisco can have Candida humilis and Lactobacillus sanfrancisco maybe Ocean County NJ's Candida and L. oceancountynj would make a good tasting leavening agent? Thanks for the idea.

[BurntFingers]

I've been looking for more info. Found some at: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
Hope it helps ease the confusion.
Bill

[JoeyVelderrain]

so I have a sourdough culture and I have activated and it is now ready to use. How much sourdough starter do I use in our standard recipe (500, 325, 10, 6) to replace the 6g of active dry yeast?

[MK1]

Joey,

Rose says to make a SD starter at about 30% of your total flour and water. Skip the yeast altogether, save the salt for the final build. In this case you would subtract 150 flour, 97 of water to mix with your SD, give it your 12-16 hour to mature and then do your final build. I assume you know it takes more time SD vs. yeast.

Mark