#1  
Old 02-25-2007, 04:45 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 27
Default I finally got Caputo; and a question.

Every hobby or adult interest has certain 'truths' that are clear to the old timers but looked upon with a skeptical eye by the new comers. Caputo flour was that way for me until this week-end. You see, I finally obtained some Caputo and was able to use it to make my dough for Pizza Day. WOW! What a difference! Thank you to this forum for showing me the way. I can only imagine how much more my art will advance as I implement other truths found here into my pizza.

Now, my question: I used the Forno Bravo Caputo recipe to make my dough. I don't have a scale for the kitchen so used the cups measuring variation. When I was forming my dough, it was very elastic, but tore without much effort. It was usable and easy to to work with, but tore much more quickly and with less handling than I expected (and I was being very careful). Did the dough tear because it was perhaps a little too hydrated, or not quite hydrated enough. More water or a tad less water next time?
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Old 02-25-2007, 07:39 PM
maver's Avatar
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

You reference using the fornobravo caputo recipe - could you be more specific. I believe the caputo I ordered came with a recipe also, but I use the one (by weight) posted on the forum here.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f10/...eight-691.html (Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight)

I modify this by reducing the yeast (usually a half teaspoon to 1.5kg caputo) and adding some natural starter for a long slow rise. I try to make the dough a few days in advance and after the yeast/starter have started the dough bubbling I divide the dough into balls and let rest in the fridge for 1-2 days (can go longer).

To get to your question - I think the suppleness of the dough (resistance to tearing) comes primarily from the slow rise and the fridge conditioning of the dough. Hydration is important as well (aim for 60-65% with caputo), but I think the dough needs to develop.

This is how the dough should handle :

YouTube - Il Pizzaiolo Pazzo
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2007, 12:00 PM
jwnorris's Avatar
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 228
Default Tipo OO

I was able to find Tipo OO [not Caputo] locally [Claro's Itialian Market] and wonder if all OO's are alike?

Thanks,

J W
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

I don't think they necessarily are. Tipo 00 means a specific fineness of grind but does not specify protein content or how the flour was handled. You could have a Tipo 00 that has a protein content ideal for pastry or have a Tipo 00 with a higher protein content than caputo. Caputo protein content is very similar to all purpose, but general all purpose flour from your supermarket does not behave like caputo in a pizza oven.

Nevertheless, I'd be interested to hear your experience with the locally available product. Better yet, try that and then purchase the small bag of caputo from fornobravo and report your experience.

Last edited by maver; 02-28-2007 at 12:59 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pebble Beach, CA
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Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

Hey Maver,
You are spot on. Tipo 00 is a classification that regulates grind, ash content, moisture, and a very wide range of glutin; everything from pastry flour to bread flour. It's the premium level of Italian flour, but it really doesn't tell you a lot without other information.

The basic Tipo 00 flour is a general purpose flour designed for pastries and cookies, and then the supermarket also sells a stronger flour designed to be mixed with Tipo 00 for bread.

Caputo is a Tipo 00 flour, but it is blended for pizza without any re-mixing out of the bag. If you buy a generic Tipo 00 and try it for pizza, you will probably be disappointed.

Also, there are going to be some very cool announcements from Caputo in the coming months. More to come on that.
James
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:56 PM
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Location: Prince Albert, Ontario, Canada
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Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

James,

I'm really looking forward to trying Caputo flour at some point, maybe for mid-May. The Tipo 00 flour I can get here in Italian markets is from various makers, and it ranges from Whole Wheat to All Purpose. The pizza flour I use is from Divella, based in Rutigliano. The bag says specifically: "consigliate per pizze e pasta sfoglia." The best part about it is the extensibility of the dough. It's much better for this use than other flours I've tried, but members seem to feel Caputo is far superior.

Jim
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Old 02-28-2007, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.



Jim, you haven't tried the Caputo flour yet???? Shock and horror. I will have Tammy drop you an email, and we will work something out.
James
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:37 PM
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Location: Prince Albert, Ontario, Canada
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Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

James,

Okay, good, let's do that, and thanks.

Jim
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2007, 01:07 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 27
Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

Thanks for all the replies! I am trying to make the dough again; and as nice as it was last time, I am trying to perfect it. This time I am trying with more water.

Another question: Does kneading the dough in the stand mixer too much have any adverse affect, or can I knead it for as long as I desire and make it better?
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2007, 04:12 PM
CanuckJim's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Prince Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,479
Default Re: I finally got Caputo; and a question.

Lester,

Overmixing definitely has a detrimental effect on any dough. What happens is this: kneading develops the gluten structure; overkneading takes the gluten past where it wants to be, and the structure begins to break down, or shred, instead of showing a web of strands when you use the windowpane test on it. Depending on what you're making, you want a finished, fully kneaded dough temperature of between 74 and 81 F. Overkneading will push you well past 81, because stand mixers (planetary) create a lot of friction, hence heat. This kind of heat is not at all good for yeast development, either knocking it back considerably, or ceasing the rising action altogether, and in any event you will get dense, chewy results.

Commonly, if dough tears, there is one of two reasons: either it's too dry, or it's not fully kneaded. Learn the windowpane test described in the FB online bread cookbook.

What I most often do is knead the dough in my spiral mixer until I'm at the temp I'm after. If the dough is still underdeveloped, I knead it further, by hand, on the bench, until I'm satisfied withe the windowpane characteristics.

If you're looking for consistent results, you must reduce your variables. A digital scale is the only way to go. I use a Salter. Weigh everything, including water. You'd be surprised at how inaccurate so-called cup measures really are, glass, metal or plastic.

If we all had the luxury of very slow fork mixers from Italy or France, we could increase our kneading times for exceptional gluten development.

Jim
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