#1  
Old 06-06-2006, 09:03 AM
Marcel's Avatar
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Location: Oregon
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Question Placement of thermometer: ___?

(M) I hope serious bread bakers, like CanuckJim, will respond to this question of where on the dome's inside to mount a metal washer for adhering a magnetic "ChimGard, Model 3-4" Wood stove Thermometer? ___

(M) This $18 unit attaches magnetically and has a Stay-cool Fold-up Handle. I will probably use it mostly by simply placing it on the floor where I plan to bake my pizza. It goes up to 900 degrees F.

(M) But when I bake bread, as I hope to do when I've had more dough building experience, might I need to know the temperature of the walls ??? ___

(M) I bought a metal washer with a small mounting hole that I'll countersink for a flat surface screw when installed. The installation will be done by using a masonry bit to predrill a 1/8" diameter hole in a brick, fill it with oven cement and mount the washer with a long screw. Then, should I need to check the temperature, the magnet on the thermometer will allow it to adhere to the washer. This would need to be done before I start to fire my oven. I could leave the ring sticking out in case I needed to later place it on the floor, but once on the floor, it would be too hot to return to the washer.

(M) Visibility will be a strong limiting factor. If placed too far back, I may not be able to read the gage; too high on the dome and it will be at too oblique an angle to read.

(M) My question, not just to bakers, but to thermal engineers and others experienced in heat management like Luis Arrevalo is where would you recommend I place the washer? _________

(M) If you are curious about what this Condor Model Thermometer looks like, it is the top model visible at the following URL:

http://www.condar.com/meters.html

(M) This thermometer may be an option for other builders who haven't installed thermocouples and can't afford a laser probe. It is manufactured in North Carolina.

Ciao,

Marcel
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2006, 10:36 AM
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Marcel:



Since we had several mail interchanging, and hopefully we will, let I clarify that I am an electronic engineer, working in the aeronautical industry and, more exactly, in the aircraft prototype instrumentation area. And I had worked in the instrumentation areas of nuclear centrals, too.

As a novice oven builder and pizza baker, my feelings are guided by this background.

And this is why my oven has eight installed thermocouples. And why, at each bread/pizza batch, there is a temperature log archive as result. I love this thing!

However, do you really need to know the actual temperature value when baking? I am not supposing so. The old bakers used their feelings to do that. Entire armies were to battle just with campaign bread and theirs hearts.

You could use the Mississipies method and the flour in the hearth one, and so on.

Going to your questions:

When firing the oven, the fire temperature will be over the 900F of the magnetic thermometer. If it possible, do not mount it in a place on ceiling where the flames could reach it.

If you are going to bond the metal washer, be careful with the working temperatures of the bonding material.

Using the thermometer to measure hearth temperatures could be fine. Just you need to realize how to pick up it from the hot environment and take readings, when baking.

To bake bread, could be better to use a thermometer with haste or handle and install it directly thru the oven door. Easy to read and it will be in the door.

If you like one of these in the oven ceiling, I think that could be better to make a hole thru the isolation/bricks in a four or six hours position (less effect of flames and heat flux flow on it).

A crazy idea (I did not think really about this) could be to install an iron wire pending from the ceiling, just in front of the landing area, which permits to you hang the thermometer when you need it.



I hope this help.



Luis
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2006, 11:47 AM
Fio Fio is offline
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Marcel,

Why don't you get the 9-86 digital pyrometer? It's got a 12" probe, goes up to 2250 degrees F, a six-foot cable. It costs $91, and you can buy replacement probes for it for $23.

I am considering buying the pyrometer with two probes. I'd put one probe at the top of the dome and the other along the side. Since I haven't finished the dome yet I can easily mortar in one of the probes. But even if not, if you have access to the dome, you can simply drill a hole using a long masonry bit.

Cheers,

- Fio
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2006, 11:59 AM
Marcel's Avatar
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Default Thanks for good suggestions, Luis

(LA) "Marcel:

Since we had several mail interchanging, and hopefully we will, let I clarify that I am an electronic engineer, working in the aeronautical industry and, more exactly, in the aircraft prototype instrumentation area. And I had worked in the instrumentation areas of nuclear centrals, too.

As a novice oven builder and pizza baker, my feelings are guided by this background.

And this is why my oven has eight installed thermocouples. And why, at each bread/pizza batch, there is a temperature log archive as result. I love this thing!

However, do you really need to know the actual temperature value when baking? I am not supposing so. The old bakers used their feelings to do that. Entire armies were to battle just with campaign bread and theirs hearts."

(M) You mean that they threw bread at each other, rather than spears?

(LA) You could use the Mississipies method and the flour in the hearth one, and so on.

(M) I'd burn my hands on the Mississippi River.

(LA) Going to your questions:

(LA) When firing the oven, the fire temperature will be over the 900F of the magnetic thermometer. If it possible, do not mount it in a place on ceiling where the flames could reach it.

(M) I'll observe your caveat. Also, mountng it on the ceiling would make it difficult to view.

(LA) If you are going to bond the metal washer, be careful with the working temperatures of the bonding material.

(M) "Furnace Cement" (at least the specialty adhesive I buy) hardens with an increase in temperature so that should be no problem.

(LA) Using the thermometer to measure hearth temperatures could be fine. Just you need to realize how to pick up it from the hot environment and take readings, when baking.

(M) I could use standard metal tongs. The thermometer has a ring you can raise or lower. I'd leave that ring in the up position.

(LA) To bake bread, could be better to use a thermometer with haste or handle and install it directly thru the oven door. Easy to read and it will be in the door.


(M) I had not considered that. This Co. makes several types of thermometers. I'll explore one I could mount through the oven door, or even buy a second like the one I have, and mount it permanently to the door.

(LA) If you like one of these in the oven ceiling, I think that could be better to make a hole thru the isolation/bricks in a four or six hours position (less effect of flames and heat flux flow on it).


(M) That was my question. So the 4:00 position would not be too close to the floor?. The 6:00 (if I understand you correctly) would actually be the hearth floor.

(LA) A crazy idea (I did not think really about this) could be to install an iron wire pending from the ceiling, just in front of the landing area, which permits to you hang the thermometer when you need it.


(M) Its a good idea and easy to install. Even if I end up not using the wire with a hook very often, it should not be in the way. Thanks.


(LA) I hope this help.

(M) It DID!

Ciao,

Marcel

Luis
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  #5  
Old 06-08-2006, 06:00 AM
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Default Devil thermometer

Marcel:



Hi, again



(M) You mean that they threw bread at each other, rather than spears?

Yep, with my first breads I assure you that this option could did somebody won the battle J



(M) That was my question. So the 4:00 position would not be too close to the floor?. The 6:00 (if I understand you correctly) would actually be the hearth floor.

No, sorry by my explanation.

I mean, from upper view of the dome (you will see a circumference), with the landing area on 6 hours, the position of the thermometer will be on 8 (not 6) and/or 4 hours.

In a front view (you will see your entry in the middle of a semi-circumference) the thermometer position will be at 10 and 2 hours.

Let be figurative with the next paragraph.

The main flux of hot gases goes from the entry by the bottom hearth to the rear wall of the dome, follow up by this way until the highest central point in dome and returns down to the upper entry and vent. Simplifying, you could think the flux path like a long sheet of paper of 1 or 2 inches (figurative) wide as your entry that involves the lower entry section, the hearth, the dome and the upper entry section.

This lets your dome with two sectors (right and left from the entry edges) without flux.

Even thinking that your flamed wood will be on the hearth at 10 or 2 hours, the flux path will goes to the entry, and the front part of the mentioned sectors will be the better places to having an ambient temperature reading, because the lack of direct flames/hot gases flux on it.

Crazy image, imagine that you are looking directly the eyes of the Devil. Well, after to get a scare, the places were are the horns will be the places where you will put your thermometer in the oven.

Do we need an oven in hell? J

Sorry, a lot of imagination was necessary here. I loose my didactic. Did you picture it?



Luis
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2006, 11:05 AM
Marcel's Avatar
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Default My thermometer can go to the devil!

(LA) "Crazy image, imagine that you are looking directly the eyes of the Devil. Well, after to get a scare, the places were are the horns will be the places where you will put your thermometer in the oven.

Do we need an oven in hell? J"

Sorry, a lot of imagination was necessary here. I loose my didactic. Did you picture it? "

==================================================
(M) Clearly, Luis. I am to hang my thermometer on the devil's horn. My oven should be nice and warm down there.

Ciao,

Marcel






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  #7  
Old 06-09-2006, 04:08 AM
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Default Devil's in the Details

Marcel,

Sorry for the delay in replying. Crazy busy. I think what Luis and Fio have said pretty well cover that particular Dante's circle. I'm still working on a good air temp gauge, trying a flue temp gauge mounted through a fire brick and a cheapo Tayor oven gauge that goes up to 600 F. In practice, though, I find that the air temp is about 75 F lower than the brick temp of the hearth. I'm just trying to be more precise by accurate measurement. Isolating the gauge is part of the problem, so drilling through the door or hanging from a wire are both viable options.

Jim
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