Go Back   Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community > Good Background Information > Forum Guidelines

Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By rock dude
  • 1 Post By Tscarborough

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: port townsend, WA.
Posts: 14
Default kneading

why is it that peter reinhart and most forum guidelines recomend very light kneading, but manufacturers of fork and spiral mixers...and also roberto at keste etc seem to be kneading for 15-20 minutes. Is it the larger batch size? Or does mixer style make that much differance? I currently use kitchen aid mixer(5 qt.) I am in the process of planning a new pizza restaurant and testing doughs. I do not have a wood oven yet, so testing is tricky. I do have restaurant experience though. I am shooting for a neapolitan "style" pie, but with a longer bake time at a little lower temperature, for a crisper finish. I could use some guidence to make this result possible. Thanks...rock dude
david s likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-08-2013, 05:32 PM
Laurentius's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Japan
Posts: 859
Default Re: kneading

Hi Rocks,

" Buy our high performance expensive mixers and knead lightly." What a sale pitch? I think what Peter and others are doing is geared toward motivated non professional. Trying to allow them to control their final product. In the end there is no right or wrong, start lightly and progress slowly to the extreme and find your personal preference.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-08-2013, 05:41 PM
Faith In Virginia's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 720
Default Re: kneading

You need to watch the dough ...not the clock!!! Kneading should be done until proper dough development. After repeated batches you will start to know about how long that will be. Every mixer is different. You do not want to over mix your dough and longer mixing times really affect DDT (Desired Dough Temperature)

What formula are you going to use?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-08-2013, 06:10 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,114
Default Re: kneading

Or you can use time instead of kneading. I do 7 stretch and folds before ballling but after hand mixing for a couple of minutes, and that is all it needs (plus the 24+ hours to ferment).
deejayoh likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2013, 06:23 PM
Laborer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 95
Default Re: kneading

I agree with Tscarborough. It is all about gluten development. Whether you get it through a 10 minute knead or a longer rise with multiple folds, it is all the same. For small batches, I used to develop the gluten through a 10 to 20 knead. After feeling physically exhausted, I tried the folding method. Was shocked by how easy it was to develop the gluten with just a few folds. On a commercial level, I get very lazy and fire up the Hobart. Consistent results without breaking your back.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2013, 06:25 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: port townsend, WA.
Posts: 14
Default Re: kneading

formula is:
22oz Caputo 00
14oz room temp water
1 tea. ADY
2.5 teas. salt
I have baked bread all my life and realize that it is not knead time but rather the finale texture that counts. However I am currently trying every differrent technique I know trying to achieve the result that I am looking for. Currently I knead relativaly wet for about 5 minutes, adding the finale flour as i finish kneading...,about 2 more minutes. Final dough temp is about 72 degrees. I proof about an hour, then portion and retard for 24 to 48 hours. I am still curious about commercial mixer kneading. My results are OK, but then agin I only have home gas oven and pizza stone. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks...rock dude
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2013, 06:56 PM
Faith In Virginia's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 720
Default Re: kneading

If your planning a restaurant you will need to be working large dough batches so I don't know how you would work out a stretch and fold that would work well. The mixer can be your friend once you learn to work together. The WFO will make some difference but you should be able to develop your dough just fine even in the home oven.

That is a really standard formula so you and the competition will be neck and neck same-O same-O. I would work with other doughs that use 10% rye or whole wheat, work with some pre-ferments or some sourdough for some real flavor.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kneading neapolitan

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Washington State: Kneading Conference West FornoBravoNews Western US 3 09-25-2012 10:23 AM
Maine: The Kneading Conference & Artisan Bread Fair FornoBravoNews Northeast US 1 05-08-2011 03:27 AM
Electrolux Stand Mixer vs. Kneading by Hand? achilles007 Pizza 27 12-20-2010 07:36 PM
kneading questions pizzaziggy Pizza 5 11-16-2007 06:55 AM
Hand kneading wet dough james Hearth Bread and Flatbread 4 03-20-2007 09:30 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:05 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC