Yeast and the dreaded salt....

[brickie in oz]

Yeast and the dreaded salt....

I did a sponge (well I think that is the term anyway) yesterday with part of the flour (200 grams) with yeast sugar and some olive oil and put in the same weight of water (200ml).
The sponge rose so well after 20 minutes and resembled something from a scifi movie, the smell was divine.

The bread rose and tasted beautiful.

Today I thought Id do the same again only this time autolysing the remainder of the dough at the same time to see if there is any difference if flavour, with added salt.

When I was making the sponge today I accidentally put in the salt, the difference in the way the sponge rose or in this case not was amazing to see.
I chucked it out and did a fresh sponge. With no salt.

[texassourdough]

Yeast does not like salt! Salt is a preservative that directionally kills (or at least impairs) yeast and bacteria. Even half a percent is enough to retard the yeast significantly. It also strengthens gluten. You should have kneaded the salt in by hand so you could feel the dough change!
Jay

[wotavidone]

Gentlemen, I've been reading this thing about salt on quite a few posts. Would it apply to pizzas as well as sponges. Which way to do you go with regard to your pizza dough, salt or no salt?
I'm making a batch tonight in which I intended to leave out the olive oil I've been putting in so far. What ya reckon?
Regards,
Mick

[brickie in oz]

You need salt otherwise the dough will taste bland.
Ive had good success with mixing as per normal for pizza dough, its thin so doesnt take much to raise it.
Leaving the salt till later may be an option.
If Im having a pizza party (28th Jan if anyone wants to come ) I always mix the dough many hours before hand and leave it on the bench in a large bowl, everyone always says how nice it smells (sourdoughish) and handles.

Bread is totally different in that there is little rise if you mix the salt in too early for the yeast to do its thing.

I was amazed at the difference and I know Jay has been on about it for ages but until you see the difference you just dont realise.

[wotavidone]

Well, I've made a batch of dough which sort of borrows from much of what I've been reading here.
Prepared as follows:
1000g plain flour (only sort on hand, and in any case I'm keen to get a better than just acceptable dough with readily available flour)
600g water
Mixed into a ball in a stainless steel bowl and let it sit for 20 minutes. (autolyse? whatever the heck that is)
Flattened out and sprinkled 3 tsp dry yeast over it and repeatedly folded it over itself for about 10 minutes to mix the yeast in.
Let it sit for 20 minutes.
Added 20g salt and folded that in for about 10 minutes.
Immediately divided that into 6 x 250g balls and put them on a plate and covered them with plastic wrap and put it in the fridge.
Went to the bank and the bottle shop.
Came back to find the balls had grown hugely.
I am using the same flour water and yeast, in the same proportions as as before.
I've not added the olive oil I usually add, but there is no doubt in my mind that the method of preparation makes a big difference. This dough simply looks better, feels better and is definitely rising better than before.
Tomorrow night I'll try making pizzas from them.

[texassourdough]

Good learning experiment, Mick!

Autolyse is a rest - you are simply letting water do its thing - which is form gluten and activating the enzymes that break down flour.

By plain flour I presume you mean AP? That is find. If it is, I would ball it later rather than early for it will relax much faster than BF or 00. Save the oil for BF. AP IMO doesn't want it - it is already soft and extensible

What you did should work well and you got to experience the change in the dough by hand folding mixing.

However, 10 minutes of folds, twice, is an awful lot of dough development. And a lot of personal attention. You can cut that back a lot. Next time try adding the yeast (IDY, not active) and mix only a minute or so. Save about 50 grams of water from the original mix to slurry with the salt. That will help it mix in. Three minutes of folding/kneading should be plenty to mix everything together. Come back in 20-30 minutes and do a couple more folds. There is not much benefit and a good bit of potential trouble from extended working of the dough.

Have Fun!
Jay