Kneeding debate - Times article

[dmun]

There's an article in today's NYTimes about the topic of kneeding bread. The money quote:

Several things became clear from my experiments. Wet, unkneaded doughs can make very good bread. Manipulating them for 10 to 15 minutes usually didn’t affect the results. Firm doughs do benefit from a few minutes of kneading, but only because it helps mix the flour evenly with the smaller proportion of water. Prolonged kneading didn’t make much difference in the finished loaves.

So why did we ever bother to knead? Mr. Suas explained that like supermarket breads today, homemade bread in the 1970s was modeled on English pan loaves, with a tight, even, fine-grained interior ideal for tidy sandwiches.

A firm, well-kneaded dough makes good sandwich bread, but not the open, irregular interiors of “rustic” loaves now in vogue.

It's worth reading.

[Wiley]

Thanks dmun, Good article, but then one wouldn't expect someone who agrees with what the author is saying to come down against the article.

Bests,
Wiley

[egalecki]

It is interesting. My bread making has changed a whole lot in the past couple of years. I've really gotten to where I don't knead much at all- stretch and fold a couple of times during bulk rising, but that's it. I am finding that the autolyse makes a big difference for me, that a longer, slower rise makes a difference, and that a lot of kneading just isn't necessary. Of course, I rarely make a loaf that cooks in a pan anymore, either... My loaf shaping skills have improved a lot so I just don't need one for a lot of breads unless I just want a square shape!

Just goes to show that there are lots of ways to take flour, water, yeast and salt and make dough.

My mom discovered years ago that if she was going to put her white bread dough (enriched with milk and butter) in a pan, she didn't really need to make a loaf out of it- just plopped enough in the pan and let it go. Of course, now that her arthritis is bad, she uses a bread machine, which is sad, but not as sad as storebought bread!

[heliman]

A good bit of practical info on this theory... thanks for sharing!

I was hoping that there would be some reference to pizza dough but it was confined to bread making. I had no problem making quite a good loaf of bread with very little kneading and a bit of folding but not so using the same method for making pizza dough.

I am really keen to see some conclusive findings based on exploratory research conducted in the area of no-knead pizza dough making methodologies and I am sure it we be available quite soon.

[kombiman]

Check out this bread with minimal kneading

[heliman]

Originally Posted by kombiman

Check out this bread with minimal kneading

Yes, good video. Some discussion on another recent FB thread about it: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f41/...ing-11072.html (Great video of 2 Italian sisters baking in WFO)