Weight vs Volums

[Richard]

Usually weigh my ingredients when baking bread due to differences in type of flour used varies from volume measurement - by cups

Does anyone have a measurement in grams for what a cup of Italian 00 flour weighs.

Thanking you in advance

[james]

I just did some math, using 4 cups of bread or all purpose flour = 18 oz. That translates to 510 grams.

I think I'm going to buy a scale and double check.

For all the bakers out there -- do you measure by volume or by weight?

James

[parsley]

I always measure by weight, and in fact use the baker's percentage system for my dough recipe (used in most/all commercial recipes). I measure by weight because the problem with volume is consistent packing of the flour. AFAIK, to measure flour accurately each time, you have to sift it into the cup measure, and then scrape the top off with a knife. I'm just too lazy to do all that sifting, and I make pretty large batches of dough (80+ oz.)

With the baker's percentage system, the weight of flour that you use is considered 100%, and all other ingredients are expressed as a percentage of the flour weight; to illustrate, here's my current dough recipe:

50 oz. flour (King Arthur bread flour, blue/white bag) = 100%
7 oz. vitamin C water*
3 oz. yeast water
20 oz. ice water
-> Total 30 oz. water = 60% (30 / 50 * 100)
1 oz. salt = 2%
1 oz. sugar = 2%
2 oz. ext. virg. olive oil = 4%
2 tsp. yeast = ~0.5% (this weighs too little to measure by weight, but is easy to measure by volume)

* I put 1 gram vitamin c crystals in 1000 grams of water to make a solution of 1mg/g water; 7oz VCW gives about 200 mg of vitamin C. The vitamin C (ascorbic acid) helps the dough survive the freezing process.

Now of course, the processes, mixing, etc. needs to be added; once I get this up on my website, I'll post a link in the dough recipes forum.

FYI, PMQ Magazine has tons of great information on making pizza dough, and has been invaluable in developing my own dough recipe.

[james]

Nice posting. Thanks.

Have you tried the Caputo 00 for pizza? I used King Arthur bread flour before, and you can definitely see, feel and taste the difference with the Italian flour.

James

[parsley]

No, I've never gotten my hands on any OO flour. I know I've read that's what's used in real Italian pizzerias, but I believe it's pretty low in protein. I mainly enjoy slapping and spinning my pizza dough, and a little googling turned this up:

In my experience, a pliable dough made with "00 for pizza" is too weak to be twirled or stretched in the air. Almost all the stretching of the dough happens on the bench. This accords with what I have observed in Italian pizzerie. As a result, I came up with the idea of using around 25% (highly refined and low in gluten) cake or pastry flour to mimic the "00 for pizza" dough and have been happy with the results.

I found that here.

Funny, I always procrastinate on publishing my pizza dough recipe online - mainly because I never make the same dough twice - always experimenting. I think my next experiment will be trying 25% pastry flour mixed w/ my King Arthur. I'll be sure and post how that goes.

By the way, I'm just thrilled to find this forum, not just for the oven stuff, but finding a group of people as fanatic about pizza making as I am.

[james]

Glad you are enjoying yourself -- and bringing up good topics.

Italian flour (Tipo 0, Tipo 00) is graded by how fine it is milled, not by gluten. So you have Tipo 00 for biscotti and Tipo 00 made for pizza, which are complete different. If you just bought Barilla Tipo 00 flour in the Coop in Florence, you would get a single digit gluten flour that isn't good for pizza (and really bad for bread). There is also a slot on the shelf for pizza flour, which is higher in gluten, though not has high as American bread flour.

When you get to Caputo Tipo 00 flour, that is something different again. They make a flour that is selected and milled specifically for pizza. You don't have to blend it, and because they have a constrant stream of flour going through the mill year round, you don't even have to make very many modifications to your recipe for the temperature. Their business to allow the pizzerias in Naples crank out great pizza, the same way day after day -- without making the pizzaiolo mess around.

The gluten is 11-12%. Higher than general purpose, lower than bread flour. But what makes the difference is the "quality" of the gluten. Not the quantity. They say they can select grains that, among other things, give you an extensive gluten (it doesn't snap back). It also hydrates well, giving you the moist pizza you see in Naples.

It's true that the dough is softer, and a little harder to throw, but pizzaiolos still work the dough in the air and only lightly finish it on the bench. That goes back to Mike's comment that throw the perfect pizza is like hitting the perfect backhand.

If a pizza made with general purpose flour is sagyy, limp and insipid, and a pizza made with American bread flour is chewy and dough -- Caputo sits right in the middle. Perfetto.

Welcome aboard again. It's great having somewho who likes to experiment.

[parsley]

Well, phooey - based on your description, I guess I have no choice but to try Caputo. Thanks for the excellent info on OO flour - that's much more than I've read elsewhere. I'll have to quote that on my 'Pizza Flour' page. Caputo is expensive stuff, though - I'll have to wait 'till our tax return comes back.

In the meantime, I've finally gone and put my current pizza dough recipe up on my website. I've put more work into my methods and processes than ingredients so far; it'll be fun trying some new stuff with flour.

Thanks again for the great forum.

[james]

Any recommendations on which scale to buy? Is there a good on-line supplier?

On a related topic, I how do folks store their flour? Do you re-pack it in plastic containers, or us it from the bag?

I have flour storage containers with a measuring cup left inside -- but if I start baking by weight I won't need the cup.

James

[james]

I found these on cooking.com.

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=214059
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=103522

The second one is digital, and has some good user reviews. It goes to 11lbs, and costs $59. It seems like going digital is a good idea.

What do you think?
James

[james]

Here's a Kitchen Scale article from eGullet. Very thorough.

http://recipes.egullet.org/ksm.php#digital

James