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Old 06-25-2010, 12:37 PM
blacknoir's Avatar
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Default Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Hey all, question for you master dough chefs. I'd like to try making my pizza dough with the awesome sourdough starter I got from Jim but I'm not sure what to use for a recipe. I've had good results with the one here.

How would I adjust that for a sourdough starter? Or should I go completely different?

Thanks,
Shay
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:06 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Hi Shay!

You are making about 850 grams of dough. For simplicity I am going to translate it to 1000. I am also going to assume your starter is 100% hydration (meaning it has as much water as flour BY WEIGHT!) The starter should be fully active - if not it needs to be fed once or twice to get it at/near its peak. I will explain the calculations so you can change the hydration or amount of dough if you want.

Start with 40 grams of starter.
Add 80 grams of water. Stir to thin the starter.
Add 80 grams of flour. Stir well. Cover with saran wrap and let it sit on the counter for about 12 to 14 hours. It should be just about peaking in activity. You now have 200 grams of preferment which includes 100 grams of flour and 100 of water.

Assuming you want 66.7% final hydration you will want 600 grams of flour (equals the 1000 grams final dough divided by 1.667 (1 plus the hydration)) and 400 grams of water in the final dough.

Put 500 grams of flour in a bowl (600 final less 100 in the preferment). Mix in 12 grams of salt (2 percent of the flour weight). Make a well in the flour. Add the preferment and 300 grams of water (400 final less the 100 in the preferment). Mix by hand or in the mixer. If you use the mixer follow your normal mixing pattern or the one in the recipe.

NOTE: This is EXACTLY like making sourdough bread to this point. To make bread you would simply let it rise about 2-3 hours, form the loaf and let proof another couple of hours and bake...

For pizza I prefer to ball Caputo flour about a half hour after mixing so... I would let the mixed dough proof for about a half hour and ball the dough. Personally I would put the balls in trays but plastic bags with a little oil in the bag/coating the dough works well. Sourdough is not as fast as commercial yeast. It will be ready to use in about five to six hours. Most wild yeasts are much less active than commercial yeast when cold. If you want to hold the dough (i.e. it is ready to use about noon if you started the preferment at 6 pm the night before), let the balls proof for three hours before refrigerating. Then, pull the balls about two hours before you want to use them. You should be able to hold the balls in the fridge for up to three days without significant ill effects.

Good Luck!
Jay
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Wow, that was very descriptive, thanks a lot! I might have to tweak it a bit, I use a bread maker to mix and it probably won't hold quite that much but I'll stick to the percentages.

Do I use my '00' flour for this? I'm going to start feeding my starter today and I was going to use King Arthur flour for that but when I'm ready to make the pizza dough what do I use?
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:23 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

I would not feed my 00 flour to the starter. Let's assume you use bread flour for the starter. There are only 20 grams of bread flour in the starter out of 600 total - or about 3 percent - not enough to worry about. You can use either flour for the pizza. Since you seem to be used to 00, I would suggest using it. With BF only you would probably want to add some oil to help it relax.

The recipe I gave is EXACTLY how I do my normal sourdough for artisanal boules (except I start with 100 grams and make 2.5 kg). With Caputo it should give a quite fine pizza dough. It may? be a bit sticky and challenging to handle but...it's probably time for you to confront the wet dough monster and tame the beast!

Good Luck!
Jay
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Thanks for outlining this in detail, Jay. I just mixed up a kilogram of dough. I hope to make pizza in the next few days if weather cooperates. I typically use instant yeast with 65% hydration. This is my first pizza with sourdough starter. I didn't think it the extra 1.7% would be noticeable, but the dough already handles differently. (I mix by hand). I'll let you know how it turns out.

Do you make your sourdough (as you mentioned above) with 66.7% hydration.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:44 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Hi Mike!

I used 66.7% so the calculations would be easy! I actually usually do 70 percent for bread though I do ciabatta up to 85% or so (have done 100% just to prove it could be done!) (I don't recommend it. It is not for the faint of heart. Like they sometimes say on daredevil shows "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!")

I do not use sourdough for my pizzas because my starter really doesn't like the refrigerator and I haven't found a workable schedule at room temp but I admit I haven't tried very hard! I should probably try my normal schedule and ball the dough about an hour after mixing the final dough, put it in trays, and refrigerate that. That would probably work.

WRT your pizza dough, if it is giving you trouble by being too loose and sticky, try giving it a couple of stretch and folds during the proof before you ball it. Proof it for say an hour and do a stretch and fold at 30 minutes and at one hour. Then ball it - if it will cooperate - otherwise wait another half hour and ball it. They let it rest...and/or refrigerate it until say 2 hours before you want to use it.

Good luck!
Jay
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

OR... You could run over to PizzaMaking.com - Pizza Making, Pizza Recipes, and More! and use their awesome Preferment Pizza Dough Calculator.
It's right there on the front page under Dough Tools.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:34 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Thanks, PP!

I hadn't seen those. Nice calculators. A quick check suggests they give reasonable results - at least for my test case. The biggest restriction for sourdough is the calculator does the sourdough as a one step process from starter to final dough and most artisanal sourdough bakers do a two stage process involving both preferment and final dough steps in order to get more flavor.

Thanks!
Jay
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

TSD:

Go stick your head in there for awhile and look up some of the previous posts.
From SFSD to Camaldoli to Ischia, they are all there.
Steve "owns" the joint. He incepted this cool forum and wisely allowed the inmates to run his pizza asylum.

You will find veritable "dough scientists" contributing almost daily.

"Pete-zza" is the lead dog and iron butt of this community. An affectionate term borrowed from Nixon who was an unparalleled researcher. When a question is posed in the forum, peter sees it. He steps in to help if needed and usually rescues the day.

Bill/SFNM is an accomplished chef who has a small Earthstone woofer at his home. He actively pursues cooking as if his life depended on it. His extremecookingblog.com features all facets of culinary interest and his photography will cause you to salivate. An artist who works off both sides of his brain.

If you are sporting for some mental pugilism and would like to learn something in the process, look up Red.November. He can take your query to the 8th decimal point. We all hope he NEVER finds that elusive electron.

Jeff Varasano got his start there as a kitchen chef. He generously gave pizza to the world by posting his findings on his blog as he chased the formula to Patsy's. He is also responsible for advocating the removal of the self cleaning door lock on home ovens to get up to "Pizza Temperature".He now runs Varasano's Pizzeria.

Willard is the escaped lab rat who melded the two ideas of lining home ovens with unglazed quarry tiles and a barbecue grill. He came up with the 2stone Pizza Grill. No one is laughing anymore.

There are so many folks here like PFTaylor who travels around to report on great pizza. DKM who cracked the Gino's east Chicago Deep Dish. (It's actually better and tastes like Gino's from 25 years ago.) Mobile Oven guys and cross posters to this forum, telehort and jjerrier2450. Our friend, Marco aka pizzanapoletana who allows us to peek behind the Neapolitan curtain every so often.

There are so many diverse people in there that come together with one thing in mind. Great pizza. A language everyone understands.

I'm happy to be one of the lunatics that Steve fosters in this wonderful forum.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:48 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Pizza Dough with Sourdough starter

Thanks again PP! And for the elaboration!
Jay
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