kneading questions

[pizzaziggy]

I'm doing all my dough by hand.
mostly all caputo or a 70/30 or so mix caputo and high gluten.
i'm mixing either 500 gram or 250 gram batches and allowing the 20 minute hydration after initial mixing
I've tried only minimal kneading..2 to 3 minutes and while the dough cooks really well, my balls come out of the refrigerator the next day looking more like pancakes.
I really don't understand what kneading does..other than mixing
so...what is a good kneading time...3 minutes...5 minutes ?

[asudavew]

Originally Posted by pizzaziggy

I'm doing all my dough by hand.
mostly all caputo or a 70/30 or so mix caputo and high gluten.
i'm mixing either 500 gram or 250 gram batches and allowing the 20 minute hydration after initial mixing
I've tried only minimal kneading..2 to 3 minutes and while the dough cooks really well, my balls come out of the refrigerator the next day looking more like pancakes.
I really don't understand what kneading does..other than mixing
so...what is a good kneading time...3 minutes...5 minutes ?

Kneading helps to build gluten. The gluten is what gives pizza its bite.

And high hydrated dough will flatten more than a drier dough.

[pizzaziggy]

thanks.
so how long is enough for kneading ?

[dmun]

If you are using both a 20 minute rest, and an overnight cold retardation, there is no reason why you need extensive kneeding. Kneeding develops the gluten structure in the dough, which longer holding also develops. You also get the benefit of development of fuller dough flavor with longer holding periods. As far as the pancaking of thedough ball, that is quite normal for higher hydration doughs. I keep mine in individual storage bowls so the dough is roughly round when you start to form the disk.

[CanuckJim]

Pizzaziggy,

This is a personal approach to your situation, of course. If I were kneading strictly by hand, I'd do it for at least 6 minutes. I'd also double the rest time to 40 minutes, stretching and folding the dough once at the 20 minute mark. It's difficult to use the windowpane test on high hydration doughs, but you do want to strengthen the gluten matrix before retardation.

Jim

[pizzaziggy]

thanks for all the help
as far as longer holding, I have found that there is a limit
i did use some 100 % caputo that was in the fridge for 6-7 days
it burned almost immediately, so I guess something breaks down in time