How to get bigger cornicione puff? Pizza Discuss How to get bigger cornicione puff? in the Brick Oven Cooking forums; I searched through the forum and it seems most people have the opposite problem I'm having. I'm looking for a ...

[sjmeff]

I searched through the forum and it seems most people have the opposite problem I'm having. I'm looking for a bigger puff that I'm currently getting, something similar to the picture of the pizza on the Caputo Rosso Tipo 00 red bag.

Here's what I'm doing:

1) Following the FB recipe to the T (or so I believe)
2) Using 100% 00 flour (Caputo red bag)
3) I take the dough out of the refrigerator 60-90 minutes before baking
4) I'm not deflating the dough with a rolling pin; I'm not touching the edge at all when I'm forming the dough
5) I'm leaving 1" - 1.5" of space at the edge when I add the sauce
6) I'm cooking the pizzas when the hearth is 750-800 degrees (using my IR thermometer)

I am getting some puff, perhaps 60% of what I'd like, but I have a ways to go.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Stephen

[texassourdough]

Hi Stephen!

To get really super puff on the dough your timing needs to be right. Too short and you won't have enough gas buildup in the dough...too long and it will be flat. There are LOTS of variables so diagnosing it is tricky.

A first question would be hydration. Wetter dough gives bigger bubbles - all other things equal. And this in turn raises the question of how the flour is and has been stored. Given you are in Maryland I would assume your flour is reasonably humid so hydration is not likely a real problem (i.e. the flour is dry and needs more water). Still, increasing the hydration a bit, say 2% of the flour weight, would likely help.

Second question is how "proofed" is the dough. Your 60 to 90 minutes out of the fridge feels short. I think 2 hours is better from my experience. Still, it can be enough. How long are you leaving it out before it goes in the fridge and how long is it in the fridge? I like overnight, but.... (We will assume your yeast is fully vigorous???)

How are you storing your dough balls in the fridge and while they warm? If the skin dries any that can hurt the oven spring.

My bet would be increasing the hydration will solve your problem but the others need to be considered as well.

Good Luck!
Jay

[sjmeff]

Jay - thanks for your response and recommendations.

To answer your questions, after the dough is finished kneading, I let the bowl sit 15 minutes (covered), then I form dough balls, then I let them sit another 15 minutes before putting them in the fridge overnight.

I had a batch already mixed up which I baked last night. I let them proof 2 hours, and there was definitely improved puff, so clearly I was under-proofing them. The fifth pizza I made (at about the 2:30 mark) was the best I've done to date; it puffed up much better (it was also cool yesterday, but I think I know what I'm looking for now so will adapt in warmer/cooler conditions).

So I think I'm 80% there now, and for the next batch I'll bump up the hydration to see if that gets me to what I'm aiming for. I've been doing 65% hydration, so will bump it up a few percentage points.

One other detail: I've been storing my flour in the freezer in a sealed container. Do you think this is a good idea?

Cheers,
Stephen

[texassourdough]

Ir's easy to underproof the dough to the point where it isn't as puffy as it should be, especially with minimal yeast (and if the yeast is a bit slow). As it gets puffy it also relaxes and gets more interesting to the touch - but delicate as well.

No problem with freezing flour. However, you want the dough to be in the 76-78 oF range when finished mixing/kneading. IF you use cold dough (or cold water) the dough will be cold and won't rise as much and will need more time to achieve the proper proof level. IF the dough is really cold (say 60 or 65) you might want to give it twice as long before putting it in the fridge. OR pull it a bit earlier so it has longer to proof before baking.

Adding water will take you the rest of your way. If you REALLY want to learn to do puffy dough I would suggest learning to make ciabatta and foccacia at 80 percent hydration. Best way is to simply take a class from Peter Reinhart at some cooking school but his new book Artisanal Breads Every Day is a decent second choice. The dough is essentially high hydration pizza dough. Learning to handle and work with that glop will help you with your pizza dough and help you understand your options. About a year ago (on this site somewhere) I wrote about doing a 100% hydration foccacia. It can be done but the 80% is better and easier to do (the 100% is almost too wet to support itself with ANYTHING on top of it.

Sounds like you will get there with some more water! Don't be afraid to try up to 70-72% hydration IF you can handle the dough (secret use lots of water on your hands to when kneading and USE LOTS OF FLOUR when handling!). If you can't handle the dough gracefully, you will degas it too much and lose the benefit!

Good Luck!
Jay

[sjmeff]

Great, thanks again, Jay! I'll try for ~70-72% and report back.

[texassourdough]

If the 70-72 % gives you problems, just add flour until you can deal with it. 70 to 72% can be a bitch to deal with until you get the touch. And be careful handling it after the retard/rise. It will be STICKY. Use lots of flour. But it should puff like crazy if you don't overly degas it.
Jay

[Stan]

The single "trick" to high hydration baking is in folding/stretching the dough during its initial fermentation. I'd second the suggestion to make some ciabatta at around 80% hydration to get a feel for dough folds. After that, a 70% dough should be easy.

Stan

[sjmeff]

Since reading your suggestions, I've made two more batches. The first was at 70% hydration, and it was a definite improvement from the 65% hydration I was doing previously (more puff, light crust), but still not quite there. The next batch I bumped up to 73%, and that seemed to be the magic number. I got a really nice puff and the best overall texture to date. I'm really happy with the results.

The remaining issues I'm having are more with prep, not so much with the final product:

1) How do I form tight dough balls with such wet dough? I rounded them on the counter with my palm (using only a very light dusting of flour), but when I transferred them to the dough tray, they were so sticky that they basically looked lumpy and uneven.

2) I lightly oiled the dough tray, but when the dough is proofed, the balls stick to the tray. I used a bench scraper to gently remove them, but I can't help but think that I'm deflating them more than necessary. Should I use more oil or is there another trick to keep them from sticking to the tray?

3) The dough was really delicate and had to be handled very gently. Is there something I can do to make the dough a little easier to work with without changing the end product (which I was otherwise happy with)?

Thanks again for all your help.

Stephen