#11  
Old 08-30-2007, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Quicklime vs. portland cement plaster

James, I'm not sure this is appropriate for that bathroom or your locale, but I redid our master bath in our last house and I installed an electric heated floor system in the bathroom. As you are redoing the floor, it's a very simple process to include that upgrade and something to think about (better in a master bath where it gives you more use). It probably cost us about $300 for the electric mat plus the thermostat, but it was one of those little things that really makes you happy on a cool winter morning. It's on our must do list for our new house.

I'm going to look into these high end plaster systems for my redo of my oven - I'm planning stucco anyhow.

Marc
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2007, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Quicklime vs. portland cement plaster

Marc,
Nice idea. We're at the coast and it's always cold and damp. Towels never dry. We are thinking of a travertine floor, laid on hardibacker screwed down to the plywood subfloor/joist system.

Where does it fit? Do you have a URL?

This is why we need a General Building forum. :-)

James
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Old 08-31-2007, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Quicklime vs. portland cement plaster

If you are used to cold and damp, you'll really love heated tile. Want a dry towel? Just leave it on the floor a few hours!

This is the system I used (purchased off the shelf from Lowes)

SunTouch - Electric radiant heat mats

Here's another I found that you can order online

Radiant Heat Systems

You need the resistor (heater), a thermostat and minimal home electric wiring skills (or an electrician). The suntouch mat I purchased has a probe that is part of the mat - this interfaces with the thermostat to control the on/off cycling. The second URL includes a lower cost option where it is just the resistor wire without a mat - the mat helps fix the spacing but is not necessary - you could easily just lay the wire in thinset.

The resistor sits on top of the hardibacker and under thinset mortar. My install instructions indicated it's best to lay thinset mortar down under the hardibacker also prior to screwing it into the subfloor to reduce the chance of flex. The only tip that would have improved my installation would be to be sure to carve out a space in the hardibacker for anything thicker than the wire (such as the thermal probe) to avoid a raised area in the tile. If you are doing a formal tile that has precise edges you might even want to lay the wire in thinset first, then have a leveling coat of thinset above it that you set the tile in to be sure it's even.

I am not a contractor though, so please verify any of my advice before proceeding with it.

Marc
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Old 08-31-2007, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Quicklime vs. portland cement plaster

I just forwarded this to Carrie. She grew up with plumbed-in towel rails. Thanks for the lead. More to come on this.
James
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Quicklime vs. portland cement plaster

James Quick lime is a very dangerous product. The quick implies that it is alive. If you touch it it will burn your hands. When you add water to it to hydrate it, it will boil and reach a very high temp. The two limes that are safe to work with are hydraulic and hydrated limes. Hydraulic limes are used with gypsum products. Such as guaging plaster, or Keenes Cement. There is a niche for these products. They are not inferior to others, but different in type, nature and behavior. Hydrated lime is quick lime which has been slaked and partially dehydrated. Hydrated lime is what is used in high end finishes. It comes in type N low magnesium, and type s higher mag. The best is type N. You can slake it from one month to five years or more to increase its quality.. The difference between Venecianos and Marmorinos is size of aggregate. Basically 50 percent each and some binders. Portland cement with either limes chemically reacts and hardens in a short time. The hydrated lime reacts chemically with the marble and carbonizes to a stone like hardness in 28 days. Hence the draping off of building exteriors in Italy. Ciao Ken
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2007, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Quicklime vs. portland cement plaster

Hi Ken,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this one. (Ken is a pro, Italian-trained Venetian plasterer). This is very helpful and it all is starting to make a little more sense. One of the Italian plaster makers claims to age N type lime in a cave for one year before using it. I haven't quite figured out why aged lime putty is better, but I am getting there. I can see why you would never mix your own at home.

I have also read that portland-based plasters can be more difficult to work with (fast setting and hardening), and that you cannot apply it over gypsum compound on drywall -- you need fresh green board. Is that right?

Looking forward to my trial plaster. Also, the color-in samples were from Texston -- the colors and finish are very nice.

James
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