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Old 05-29-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Yes, I know how important it is to shave face

Sorry, I just couldn't resist
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2012, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

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Originally Posted by deejayoh View Post
Yes, I know how important it is to shave face

Sorry, I just couldn't resist
Interestingly I do it every day!
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2012, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Thanks for all the help today! I did as I promised, reset the base that my IT was attached to, making it more substantial, knocked it back 1/4-inch, and set the next course with an eye toward the middle of the brick instead of the top edge. It laid in there nicely. I'm happy with it so far, and I'm honestly not concerned with an exact half circle (maybe I should be, but I don't plan on letting my friends stick their heads in there to check it out - and they wouldn't know any better that it wasn't as I intended anyway!)

I'm dealing with the cuts that frame the arch into the dome tomorrow. You just might be hearing from me again. Thanks again for your great response.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Hi - a little late to this discussion but maybe i can help a little to throw some light on this.
The problem I believe is due to the design of the IT. The design which you are using must cause the exact problem you describe. Think of it like this:

- Your IT is a straight piece of wood from the centre of the dome.
- The brick is at right angles to it.
- Imagine then a straight line between the bottom of the brick and the dome centre.

What I have just described is a right angle triangle and the imaginary line is the hypoteneuse - and therefore longer than the IT to the top of the brick.

You can use pythagoras theorem to work out exactly what your "setback" should be. For example a 20" IT with 3" brick will give a hypoteneuse of 20.22" and .22 is just under a 1/4 of an inch.

The solution to the problem is to make the IT exactly as jcg31s design which is quite brilliant but more difficult and points the shaft of the IT at the centre of each brick. That way you effectively have two right angle triangles with a common middle and two equal hypoteneuses - centre to top of brick = centre to bottom of brick.

Look at post 1 and 3 here - I ( and many others) copied this - it should be a sticky
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f28/...heme-2985.html (My indispensible tool (a variation on a FB theme))

Last edited by Amac; 05-29-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

I love how technically you all get about building these ovens, but I'm the first to admit I'm way more artist than engineer. I'm hoping to pull this off with my stick.
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2012, 01:54 AM
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Smile Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Sorry Xene I didn't mean it to be too technical - some people love Pythagoras - others wish he never existed. I'm somewhere in between, but I can't ignore a puzzle, even if I fail to solve a lot of them
What you can do instead of building a new IT is just bevel the square bit which touches the brick and just use it to measure to the top edge of the brick. Then make sure the bottom edge of your brick aligns with the top of the brick below - with no "set back" or forward. Just be aware that the IT will not lie flat on top of the brick in that case, but point up at a slight angle. The sketches shows better what I mean. The first sketch shows the setback as it is now, and the second one how to solve it with your existing IT.

Good luck in your endeavours. I like arty ovens also so looking forward to the finished article I guess you have seen this one from Frances in Switzerland
Pizza oven with mosaic | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Attached Thumbnails
Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.-photo0528.jpg   Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.-photo0527.jpg  

Last edited by Amac; 05-30-2012 at 04:29 AM. Reason: upload sketch
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Thanks Amac! Your sketches make it clear (visuals are the best) - but now I'm wondering - missing that vital bit of Geometry I should probably have had before tackling this project - what happens if I only use the top of the IT to angle each brick and align each edge with the lower course, disregarding the side 'square' alignment completely? Won't that just result in a slightly lower dome? It would come out close to a half circle it seems? I mean, realistically, at this point I could put a blow-up ball in there and all these angles would be off anyway, but the oven would still get equally hot (I assume) and cook just as well if the geometry is off - right?

If I gave this thing too much thought I would talk myself out of doing it at all - so I'm tackling it a bit like everything I do - jump in and see how it comes out. My track record in general is good - and with you guys helping me when I get stuck, I have great expectations about this project as well! Thanks as always.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2012, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Here's how you can fix your IT

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  #19  
Old 05-30-2012, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Amac's picture shows exactly what I was trying to point out as well.

So to your post - if you try to use the top of the IT to angle each brick, you will get a lower dome, which will work fine. But you will also have to shorten the IT with each course.

Better idea might be to put a shim at the back of the flat part of your IT (the part that touches the top of the brick) that is equal to half of the height you are tilting each brick. That way, your measurement is set and constant. So if you've been tilting each brick 1/2" at the back - put a quarter inch shim in there and the angle will be right. The next brick will still need to be tilted up 1/2" inch but the top angle will be correct.

Edit: The approach in Laku's drawing would work also - as long as the long part of the IT hits the brick dead center and the brick is square (e.g. you haven't cut an angle at the top or bottom). Then it will be on the correct angle.

(BTW, I wish I had seen a conversation like this before I built my dome. It would have saved me a lot of time in sketchup and reviewing geometry...)
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Last edited by deejayoh; 05-30-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: Trouble with setback on brick courses. Need advice.

Quote:
what happens if I only use the top of the IT to angle each brick and align each edge with the lower course, disregarding the side 'square' alignment completely? Won't that just result in a slightly lower dome?
Yep - and a slightly lower dome is generally regarded as good - and don't worry - even with the "setback" the oven will be fine. I like Laku's fix though, and it is also simple to apply to your IT.

@DJO
Quote:
So to your post - if you try to use the top of the IT to angle each brick, you will get a lower dome, which will work fine. But you will also have to shorten the IT with each course.
True if Xene uses the same IT - but a simpler single piece IT wouldn't need shortening. I guess it depends on the dome height you are aiming for.
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