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  #101  
Old 09-10-2013, 04:30 PM
Greenman's Avatar
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

With Vermicrete, the more portland cement it contains the less the insulating properties. Also, the more air you can keep in it the better it insulates. Mixing by hand (with a hoe) is the way to keep it aerated.

It is interesting material to work with and on the steep part of the dome it is even more interesting. I used a moveable form to get it to hold in place around the bottom of the dome and once that is in place it gives something to build off. My method ended up being to put it there (around the wire mesh) and leave it alone to go off. The more you play with it the worse things get.

Up towards the top of the dome it is much easier since you have gravity working with you. Just need to remember that the vermicrete layer is not structural and its purpose is to insulate and hold the stucco/render layer so a rough finish is fine.
Are you going to use ceramic fibre under the vermicrete on your dome?

Interesting nature shots. Thanks.
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  #102  
Old 09-10-2013, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Gudday
Don't skimp on the insulation!
Make the oven an inch smaller to give you an extra inch of insulation.
I would myself even cut every brick down by an inch and give me a thinner dome just for that inch of insulation.
As you said using less Portland in the final pearlite/ cement mix will help with its insulation value.
I've only used pearlite/ cement once on someone else's oven. It's a task!
Basically what worked was grabbing handfuls and placing around the dome
You can't go to high to quickly as the water will melt the stuff underneath and it will slump so its a job of patience and you have to walk away sometimes and let it set.
Regards dave
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  #103  
Old 09-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenman View Post
With Vermicrete, the more portland cement it contains the less the insulating properties. Also, the more air you can keep in it the better it insulates. Mixing by hand (with a hoe) is the way to keep it aerated.

It is interesting material to work with and on the steep part of the dome it is even more interesting. I used a moveable form to get it to hold in place around the bottom of the dome and once that is in place it gives something to build off. My method ended up being to put it there (around the wire mesh) and leave it alone to go off. The more you play with it the worse things get.

Up towards the top of the dome it is much easier since you have gravity working with you. Just need to remember that the vermicrete layer is not structural and its purpose is to insulate and hold the stucco/render layer so a rough finish is fine.
Are you going to use ceramic fibre under the vermicrete on your dome?

Interesting nature shots. Thanks.
No ceramic fiber, but a Rockwool fire resistant mineral wool made for the industies.

These are the properties: http://guide.rockwool-rti.se/media/6...x_sl_960sc.pdf

The Product Description translates to:

"Thermal and acoustic insulation of high temperature industrial plants. For example, boilers, furnaces, fire doors and fire chamber"

And it's one inch thick with a wire mesh on it. There will probably be some leftovers when im done with the first layer, and i will put a second layer higher up on the dome where i have more space for it.

The movable form sounds like a really good plan. Will be done in a flash at work. Carpenter is obviously the wrong name for my profession. I'm evidently a cabinet maker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblerdave View Post
Gudday
Don't skimp on the insulation!
Make the oven an inch smaller to give you an extra inch of insulation.
I would myself even cut every brick down by an inch and give me a thinner dome just for that inch of insulation.
As you said using less Portland in the final pearlite/ cement mix will help with its insulation value.
I've only used pearlite/ cement once on someone else's oven. It's a task!
Basically what worked was grabbing handfuls and placing around the dome
You can't go to high to quickly as the water will melt the stuff underneath and it will slump so its a job of patience and you have to walk away sometimes and let it set.
Regards dave
After discussions with my father, he too is convinced that more insulation is the right way to go.

So now the word "skimp" is dispatched to the past.

Last edited by Southboom; 09-13-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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  #104  
Old 09-13-2013, 03:09 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Southboom,
I used rockwool boards/bats in direct contact with the exterior of the dome, fiberglass bats in the inside of the of the oven house structure, then vermiculite to fill the cavities. I guess I have about 25cm of rockwool and vermiculite over the dome and no less than 10cm of insulation anywhere around the dome. Under the brick floor I used 2 inches, 5cm, of Calcium Silicate rigid insulation.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/sc...d-7035-11.html (SC Chris's 42" WFO build)

My experience is that the oven holds cooking heat for 3 full days after a soaking pizza burn.

Chris
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  #105  
Old 09-13-2013, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Minor update

Did the second and last layer of vermicrete today. This time as suggested by Greenman, i mixed it by hand (with gloves, Nitrile to be exact). Watered with a hoe little by little. Got it more aerated, but still firm. Same 5:1 mixture. Now the overall thickness is about 2 inches, a little more to the back so i just got it leveled. Now i just have to wait, maybe a couple of days. Tomorrow will be rain.

They say that today was the last day of the summer. Never in my life have i experienced a summer this long with temeratures this high for such a long time, i don't think that anybody has in this region, so they say. Everybody seems a bit more contented then usually, an thats not a bad thing. But rain and colder temperatures are on it's way. I'm going to build as much as i can till it get's to cold, i may not have the time to finnish it before the winter, and if so i will postpone the project to the spring.

One positive thing, i think i have all the bricks that i need. I found some special bricks suited for chimnes ("chimne bricks" as they called it) at the diy store.

Do you think these can be used in the "atrium" with the outer arch and flue opening ?

If so, i think i have all the bricks that i need.

#1 and #2: The bricks that's left.

#3 Despite being Friday the 13th today, i had the help from higher powers today. I think i'm gonna print this picture, go and visit the Jehovah's and explain that Jesus is on his way, and maybe sell them the picture for one of their magazines.
Attached Thumbnails
Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-20130913_171452.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-20130913_171516.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-20130913_181729.jpg  

Last edited by Southboom; 09-13-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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  #106  
Old 09-14-2013, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCChris View Post
Southboom,
I used rockwool boards/bats in direct contact with the exterior of the dome, fiberglass bats in the inside of the of the oven house structure, then vermiculite to fill the cavities. I guess I have about 25cm of rockwool and vermiculite over the dome and no less than 10cm of insulation anywhere around the dome. Under the brick floor I used 2 inches, 5cm, of Calcium Silicate rigid insulation.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/sc...d-7035-11.html (SC Chris's 42" WFO build)

My experience is that the oven holds cooking heat for 3 full days after a soaking pizza burn.

Chris
Chris,
That is really good to hear, and since my dome is 26" i know that it needs even less insulation than a 42" oven. But i will not skimp anyway, cause i live in a cold climate most time of the year. But I will not overdo it either.

Regards
Karl
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  #107  
Old 09-15-2013, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

While wating for the vermicrete to fully cure, i have the time to post a more throughout description of the work process, so here goes:

August 2

#1 and #2: Dry fitting, Iron cast door, probably Jugend and from the first half of the last century. Bought from an online auction site.

August 9

#3 Surroundings, you can see the barnum farthest behind the glasshouse

#5 Where it all started, more like a joke at the beginning. But then things got more serious

#6 To the right of the building site, facing to the north.
Attached Thumbnails
Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-dsc00271.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-dsc00274.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-dsc00276.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-dsc00278.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-dsc00279.jpg  

Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-dsc00280.jpg  

Last edited by Southboom; 09-16-2013 at 07:03 AM.
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  #108  
Old 09-15-2013, 08:16 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Love the door.. Are you planning to include an insulated door inside of this?

Chris
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  #109  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCChris View Post
Love the door.. Are you planning to include an insulated door inside of this?

Chris
Im in love with it to.
Yes, there will also be an inulating door. I'm thinking of putting a wood panel on the outside of it, so it must be well insulated. When I have come thus far, i will ask you questions about it.

I'm just about to put a last layer of stove polish on the outer iron cast door. I have been experimenting a little, i read somewhere on a swedish web site that you could use raw linseed oil mixed with turpentine ("balsam terpentin" in swedish) I don't really know what the "balsam" stands for. If anyone may know what this means, and the correct word in English, i would be glad to hear it.

Anyway, the mixture was 5 raw linseed oil : 1 balsam terpentin. The cast iron will absorb this and become saturated. Preferably one shall heat up the iron before doing this. I did miss this step, read about it afterwards.

The door was of course thoroughly cleaned before this.

Then i put on the stove polish and used a fan heater to make it dry faster.
The door became relatively hot and the polish dried pretty fast and leaved a matte finish. So i thought, hey! why not put a layer of raw linseed oil and heat it with a propane torch (something I'd learned when practicing as a blacksmith). It all went really well.
Today i will put on the last layer of stove polish and let it dry one day before polishing it to get that graphite look.

All this is as i mentioned kinda experimetal. I had noticed that the door had began to rust just by leaving it in the garage after putting only one layer of stove polish on it. The air has been very humidified, the dog days of summer.
And now we are in a period with lot's of rain.

The stove polish is quite water resistant. For a period of time.
I know that this may be in vain. That the stove polish may be washed away by the rain after some time. But i'm willing to give it a try. Love to practice the old methods. Also my father want to have a tarp on the stove in the worst weather conditions, and winter.

If this still fails, I contemplate to base prime and paint the door with both heat resistant spray paint.

August 11

#1: The traces of rust, evil rust.

#2: Raw linseed oil and turpentine

August 14

#3: Stove polish
Attached Thumbnails
Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-20130911_204836.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-20130911_222651.jpg   Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm-20130914_193550.jpg  

Last edited by Southboom; 09-16-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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  #110  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: Somewhere in the slumering suburbs of Stockholm

Now im off to work, but before that i have a quesstion.
I found these "chimney bricks" as they were called at the DIY store.

While short on refractory bricks, i found these very timely.

They are solid and have a pretty rough surface.

My question to you is:

Will these do the job as the outer arch and flue beginning ?

Regards
Karl
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