#11  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

Sorry to clutter up your thread, but I found another image. I didn't buttress the vent wall, I had forgotten about that. No problems there either.

Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?-during4.jpg

Am I telling you not to buttress your arch? Nope..it's good insurance.
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:26 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

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Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
I built an oven arch like that on my other personal WFO.
Very nice one. I plan to do the same indeed with the first "inside" arch exactly like you did there.

However, the arch I am in trouble with, will be in front of it and I do not want to have them "touching". (there will be a small thermal break between the two)

Because it is free standing I do not know (yet) if I can get any kind of reinforcement from the oven side... I have to get it from the concrete slab or butress or cladding I think...

Thanks for all your input by the way, apreciated !
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:33 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

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Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Sorry to clutter up your thread, but I found another image. I didn't buttress the vent wall, I had forgotten about that. No problems there either.
Nice! Basicaly that is very close to my idea. You do have it connecting to the oven wich will give it some extra support, but I can also get that little bit of extra support. To me it shows that there is some merrit in the idea that I have.... It will need extra support and can not be free standing, thats clear to me now but I can use the arch that I have in mind...

nice. Now just have to deside how far back it has to go into the oven because while talking to you and looking at my models, I suddenly realised, like in the last picture you have send, it has to go further into the oven else it would not look nice and round anymore. Next oven I should build from clay. If I don't like it, I make it wet and start over gain
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

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Originally Posted by nachtwacht View Post
Very nice one. I plan to do the same indeed with the first "inside" arch exactly like you did there.

However, the arch I am in trouble with, will be in front of it and I do not want to have them "touching". (there will be a small thermal break between the two)
The vent arch was touching on that oven, but contact with the oven arch does not have any structural properties at all, because it was not tied into the masonry behind it. So, it doesn't matter if the oven opening arch and the vent wall arch are butted together or not.

My current oven has two thermal breaks. I don't know how effective they are during live fire cooking, but I do see a benefit for baking and longer heat retention. I hadn't incorporated one before, so that's why I did it on this oven.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

You can see in this pic that the vent is just butted up to the oven opening.

Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?-during2.jpg

If my arch failed, no mortar joint between the twp arches would be enough to prevent it. In a sense, because the two arches are independent, that is a control joint.
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

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Originally Posted by nachtwacht View Post
ok. You confirmed one of my other things I feared. Vermicrete is probably not good under compression. The rebar will make the vermicrete crack over time and then the rebar is useless, both around the dome and next to the entry arch.
Vcrete is pretty good under compression, and the more portland in the ratio, the higher the compression rating. The problem, as with regular concrete and most masonry, it has weak tensile strength. That is way reinforcement is added to concrete or cladding....it's just that vcrete/perlcrete is weaker in bind strength as well, compared to concrete or mortar.
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Last edited by stonecutter; 09-13-2013 at 08:35 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2013, 06:51 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

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Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
You can see in this pic that the vent is just butted up to the oven opening.
That is exactly what I was planning to do ! I had found your picture and stored it localy allready and it is basicaly where I got the idea from I just did not know where it came from anymore.

And you made that without any cladding ? Nice...

I think I will use cladding or some other extra reinforcement anyway, just to be sure, but it is reassuring that your oven is still standing without it I do have the feeling that in your door the arch is a little more bend and the the 3 stones that it is standing on are a little lower (for sure, since I use 4 stones) That will structuraly probably make it somewhat stronger... I will see if I can live with a small redesign like that. I will still use some reinforcement but it will only be half way the stones so I like to make it as strong as possible without the reinforcement...

Again thanks for all your replies.
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  #18  
Old 09-13-2013, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

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Originally Posted by nachtwacht View Post
......... but it is reassuring that your oven is still standing without it .......
I haven't seen the oven in over 3 years, but we are heading up to CT in Oct, and I planned on stopping by to check it out. Hopefully the dome hasn't imploded and the arch a crumbled ruin.
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  #19  
Old 09-13-2013, 08:16 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

Mine should be finished before that so if it has imploded, please don't tell me

Thanks for all the advice !
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  #20  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Is this plan (oven entry) structuraly strong enough ?

Option 5 sounds like a winner if you are dead set against buttressing the arch from the outside. But I would fill the hole in your "stones" and slab (surrounding the rebar) with cement (mortar) to ensure the rebar is anchored to the slab and enusre that there is no movement between the rebar and the "stones". I would use 1/2" or 5/8" rebar for this.

Last edited by ATK406; 09-13-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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