#11  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

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Originally Posted by fxpose View Post
I have a question: Is the vermicrete layer absolutely necessary between the blanket and the stucco?

George
I would say yes becasue you are building the last outer layer to form the doom to look symmetrically.

the other reason is that if you us STATE of the ART Stucco.... ..... it is only a thin coat...... and if you use Conventional Stucco you can build it up to what ever thickness you want to ( it is like using Colored Mortar with additive for water proofing in it )
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

Thanks guys! I realize the dome would be much easier to form/sculpt using a thin layer of vermicrete. It's just that I have clearance issues where I don't want the final stucco layer to go beyond a certain point. I basically have 3" of blanket and perhaps another inch or so to finish the dome exterior.

George
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

Yeah, I was being pretty precise in my previous answer. While the vermicrete is not required to make the oven cook properly (assuming you have sufficient ceramic insulation), it is nevertheless a stretch to call it optional if you build an igloo enclosure because you've got to mold and shape the exterior appearance somehow, and if not vermicrete, then how? So yeah, it isn't very optional.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

Oh my!
I'm not really confused...yet - Just ignorant on this stuff...Ok, I looked at your build - what are the "pins" in the insulation blanket?
I will be telling my son what he needs to do, and I have to sound like I know what I'm talking about! ha ha.
I also looked at the alum foil. Funny. I thought you were just talking about aluminum foil.
Is that something I can get at lowes?

So the mesh or lathe goes OVER the foil?
and then after that goes some verm./portland. ( I feel like an old pro at that!) and the mixing of mortar mix.
Anyway....THEN stucco - call a stucco company and see if I can get some of their leftovers? We just bought four bags at Lowes yesterday, but I can return those!
I wonder how many stucco people there are in this neck of the woods!

By the way, your oven build is so nice looking! I would LOVE to start over. heh heh heh - but I'll have a chance whenever we redo this kitchen!

Yes, and I was looking at the chimney pipe - we're doing a 42" oven - the 36" x 8" at Forno Bravo for 230 bucks?!?!?! They have what seems to be exactly the same stuff at Lowes for 97.00 so I bought that one - but I need a cap. I was referred to a local HVAC company for one....I suppose I could also get the alum foil there and tape?

This is all new thinking to me, I just want you to know. I was just figuring out the brick cutting and laying and was enjoying it when winter came...and then an expecting baby in July! So I've been rather out of commision and have been tying to focus on more...."ladylike" things like, ahem, sewing and stuff....ha ha. Now, although I won't be WORKING on the oven, I have to be able to TELL my son with conviction what he has to do! And I want to kinda hurry up so I can practice making pizzas and have it down for 3 of my kids graduations at the end of the month. Is it possible?
sigh.

That's why I seem confused!
Thanks,
Cecelia
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  #15  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

While you're researching stucco, you may as well considering something like Quikrete Quikwall Surface Bonding Cement and its sister product Quikrete Acrylic Fortifier. It is an alternative to conventional stucco which has many nice properties. First, it has little fibers in it that act like a lathe/mesh, providing structure and lateral strength to the final product. Second, it contains materials which actively repel water. Several people on FB (myself included) have used it.

I will have to leave it to someone else to comment on more basic stucco materials. My guess would be that (relative to surface bonding cement) they are more likely to crack (no fibers) and more porous to water (no hydrophobic compounds). Of course, you can buy the fibers loose and mix them into your stucco and the waterproofing issue can be handled by many options, either additives to the stucco or final layers coated over the stucco.

Don't you just love being paralyzed by a glut of options?
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

Yes! This is the problem: "the glut of options!"
I would love it if someone would just tell me exakitakily what to use next - names, places to get it, how much, how to apply...with no options.
It's starting to sound like child raising!

Cecelia
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

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Originally Posted by kebwi View Post
Yeah, I was being pretty precise in my previous answer. While the vermicrete is not required to make the oven cook properly (assuming you have sufficient ceramic insulation), it is nevertheless a stretch to call it optional if you build an igloo enclosure because you've got to mold and shape the exterior appearance somehow, and if not vermicrete, then how? So yeah, it isn't very optional.
Yes, thanks. The only 'problem' area is the first few vertical inches up starting from the base of the dome. I was thinking of molding chicken wire over 3" of blanket and building up layers of stucco. The rest of the dome has plenty of space for a layer of vermicrete over the blanket which I intend to use to sculpt the dome with.

Sorry Cecilia, I didn't mean to hijack your thread with my inquiries, but I thought it was somewhat relevant.

George
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Last edited by fxpose; 05-06-2010 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

We're not going to do that because there are genuine options in that multiple approaches will result in a successful final product. I agree, it is incredibly frustrating from your point of view; I've been there several times in the last few months.
  1. Finish the brick (you're there already).
  2. Wrap the ceramic insulation on.
  3. Fire the oven once or twice pretty hot, you'll see a ton of steam.
  4. Apply some combination of lathe/chickenwire/aluminum foil (I'll leave it to others to prescribe this step since I have no direct experience with it).
  5. Add the vermicrete layer.
  6. Fire the oven a few more times, try to get that moisture out of there before the final render.
  7. Apply some form of stucco, namely: conventional stucco or surface bonding cement. Both are available at box stores, although I had to special order the SBC. If you use SBC, add acrylic fortifier.
  8. Apply optional final weatherproofing (optional in that SBC may not require it, but stucco probably does).

Something along those lines.

Does that help?
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

Do you have a Lowe's or a Home Depot to rely on? I hate to admit it, but I used them a lot. As for vermiculite, get the four-cubic foot bags from a garden center, or possibly from a cement/concrete supply in your area. Stucco products and Quikrete SBC products are available at Lowe's/Home Depot (Depends on your area to some extent).
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2010, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: next step after insulating

Not to be argumentative, but it has been noted on several other threads that any aluminum foil product WILL corrode/disolve if put in contact with uncured cement based products...this would include perlcrete, vermicrete, and any form of stucco.
These radiant barriers may very well be "state of the art", but they don't have unlimited uses. I could not find specifics on the uses of the product listed, but it is easily confirmed that foil reacts negatively to uncurred cement.
I did find one name brand manufacturer of foil radiant barriers that specifically states to not place in contact with uncurred concrete. I believe it was Radiant Guard (radiantguard.com)
Cecelia, save your money and save time.....skip the foil.

RT
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