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  #401  
Old 10-01-2013, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by kbartman View Post
The other train of thought would be a felt paper under the wire lath. This would create a secondary moisture barrier.
^^^
This. Stucco is not a waterproof material. It absorbs water. It needs a moisture barrier. And that is the primary barrier. How it's worked for hundreds of years.
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  #402  
Old 10-01-2013, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

Didn't KB say stucco with paint to seal? Or have I missed something....
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  #403  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by kbartman View Post
Thanks Chis,

I will be gentle with her, as I would my wife. I brought the oven gently up to 350 before leaving it to the wife to tend. I went inside to sleep to be ready for night shift. I was hoping to keep the oven at 350F all day. When I woke I discovered she had left the temperature fall to about 250F. Oh well no chicken supper for me. Try again tomorrow.

I scored some free fire wood from a friend, I should be good to go. Mostly oak. He did say there was some other tree mixed in he had cut down in his yard don't remember the name, started with a "M", I think. I couldn't tell the difference cause most of the bark was off.

Anyway I was wondering is there any is wood that is poisonous to burn?
I will have to find out the name my friend's tree.

Took some pictures of the dome to look for any crack. Don't see any yet.
Looks like maybe you got some Mesquite wood splits there on the top right of the stack maybe??. Its really good for grilling because it burns really hot and has a good strong smoke. I am using some smaller pieces in my curing fires but being careful because it does burn VERY HOT!
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  #404  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by kbartman View Post
Progress has been slow to this point, hope to finish the curing fires this weekend. I also hope to get the outer decorative arch completed and start the stucco process soon.

I need some advice on stucco...............My thinking is that a igloo style enclosure, that the moisture barrier is achieved in the in the final stucco coats and paint that seals and keeps moisture out of the dome.

My thoughts are at this point is to stucco over wire lath directly in contact with the Hardie board and create the moisture barrier with the final coats of paint. With the stucco directly bonded to the Hardie Board, I'm thinking there would be less chance of cracking.

The other train of thought would be a felt paper under the wire lath. This would create a secondary moisture barrier. that would leave only the 1/2 " of stucco which I think could crack easily.

I'm no stucco expert and would like your opinions.
Correct that paint will seal out moisture. It will also seal it in too, if the stucco is compromised (crack)

If you use felt, use two layers of #15, it's standard practice.
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  #405  
Old 10-02-2013, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by GarnerAC View Post
Looks like maybe you got some Mesquite wood splits there on the top right of the stack maybe??. Its really good for grilling because it burns really hot and has a good strong smoke. I am using some smaller pieces in my curing fires but being careful because it does burn VERY HOT!
GAC,
I have not ask my buddy about "M" wood , but I don't think it is Mesquite. When he told me to come over to get the wood he told me the name of the tree and suggested I get the oak. He said I would be able to see a difference. I couldn't tell and he wasn't there at the time.

How's the curing going? Holding the temperature down showed to be a chore especially while working on the back side of the oven. I had a few hot spikes scares and I decided to wait till I had time to devote to closely tending the fire.

Your oven is coming along nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejayoh View Post
^^^
This. Stucco is not a waterproof material. It absorbs water. It needs a moisture barrier. And that is the primary barrier. How it's worked for hundreds of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oasiscdm View Post
Didn't KB say stucco with paint to seal? Or have I missed something....
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Correct that paint will seal out moisture. It will also seal it in too, if the stucco is compromised (crack)

If you use felt, use two layers of #15, it's standard practice.
Ok guys, looks like I will put down some felt under the lath. I'm not sure how to deal with the over lap onto the concrete block. I presume I can end the felt there.

I'm also concerned with the penetration of the felt paper for attaching the wire lath. Does this not compromise the vapor barrier?

Stonecutter,
I noticed the felt beneath your chimney stucco, I presume this with over lap the flashing around your chimney, is this correct?

I be thinking and considering the moisture that may get trapped inside my chimney enclosure and was considering a vent on top underneath the chimney pot/extension. I will also have a ridge vent on the dome house enclosure, which is at a lower elevation. I did not see any vents on yours. What are your thoughts on moisture built up in the chimney enclousure?

Again thanks for everyone's help.
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  #406  
Old 10-02-2013, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by kbartman View Post
GAC,
Ok guys, looks like I will put down some felt under the lath. I'm not sure how to deal with the over lap onto the concrete block. I presume I can end the felt there.
You're doing an igloo? Yeah, you can end the felt there, see below for a suggestion...
I'm also concerned with the penetration of the felt paper for attaching the wire lath. Does this not compromise the vapor barrier?
Don't worry about it.
Stonecutter,
I noticed the felt beneath your chimney stucco, I presume this with over lap the flashing around your chimney, is this correct?
It's not felt, it's ice and water shield...just a temporary layer until I do the permanent lead flashing. You can flash with ice and water where your felt terminates. Overlap the I/W 3" with the felt.
I be thinking and considering the moisture that may get trapped inside my chimney enclosure and was considering a vent on top underneath the chimney pot/extension. I will also have a ridge vent on the dome house enclosure, which is at a lower elevation. I did not see any vents on yours. What are your thoughts on moisture built up in the chimney enclousure?
Vents let humidity in too, especially down here in the south. I can almost guarantee nobody is building an air tight enclosure. My opinion..... Do your best at drying in the building and forget the vents. The enclosure will breath, and that is a good thing.

My chimney is framed with wood, layered inside and out with durock. There is 3" clearance all the way around the clay flue, the base is covered with mineral wool, then the chase is filled with loose perlite. All the seams are taped with fiberglass mesh and mudded with thinset. All three stucco layers contain Dry-Block admix, and water was beading off when I tested it. Then the paint to finish it off. When I opened up the crown to set my granite cap supports, it had rain hard a few days before...it was dry as a bone.

I only mention this because, if you attend to the chimney the way you did with the brick cutting, then you are over thinking the moisture possibilities.
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  #407  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Vents let humidity in too, especially down here in the south. I can almost guarantee nobody is building an air tight enclosure. My opinion..... Do your best at drying in the building and forget the vents. The enclosure will breath, and that is a good thing.
.
Oven door openings and chimneys also allow humidity in. The beauty of having a vent is that it provides a release from steam pressure build up in the insulation layer, just like a saucepan lid that has a small vent. This ofcourse is far more important for an igloo style oven. If you have a doghouse style the steam will find its way out somehow, however any oven with a vent will also dry out faster than one without.

Last edited by david s; 10-03-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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  #408  
Old 10-03-2013, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by david s View Post
Oven door openings and chimneys also allow humidity in. The beauty of having a vent is that it provides a release from steam pressure build up in the insulation layer, just like a saucepan lid that has a small vent. This ofcourse is far more important for an igloo style oven. If you have a doghouse style the steam will find its way out somehow, however any oven with a vent will also dry out faster than one without.
I guess...but I doubt that the masonry in any oven will absorb enough moisture through the chimney or door opening ( most people have doors too) to create steam. The way I do see that happening is if any of the finishes are compromised in way that allows excessive moisture or rainwater to enter the masonry. And if that is happening, a vent might not be enough to stop the damage.

I would caulk up a vent as a precautionary method at best. Also assuming the oven had the moisture driven out before it was dried in.
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  #409  
Old 10-03-2013, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

We live in the tropics and during the wet season the humidity is so high that mould on clothing in wardrobes is sometimes a problem. Porous refractory gets pretty wet even without any direct rain and the oven interior is also sometimes mouldy. Both the chimney cap and door are much bigger in area than a vent, so would expect more uptake of moisture through them than a small covered vent. The chimney cap can allow some moisture through and after heavy downpours with some sideways rain the tell tale sign of some soot on the floor bricks under the flue is evidence. Likewise driving rain around the entry will find some water ingress. The vent does a good job of removing the water and I've done it at least once every wet season for the past four years without creating any oven damage, so for us a vent is mandatory.Likewise a hole in the supporting slab to communicate with the underfloor insulation.

Sorry, should have added that our oven is an igloo style and exposed to the weather.

Last edited by david s; 10-03-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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  #410  
Old 10-03-2013, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: My 40" Inch pizza oven in Florida

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Originally Posted by david s View Post
We live in the tropics and during the wet season the humidity is so high that mould on clothing in wardrobes is sometimes a problem. Porous refractory gets pretty wet even without any direct rain and the oven interior is also sometimes mouldy. Both the chimney cap and door are much bigger in area than a vent, so would expect more uptake of moisture through them than a small covered vent. The chimney cap can allow some moisture through and after heavy downpours with some sideways rain the tell tale sign of some soot on the floor bricks under the flue is evidence. Likewise driving rain around the entry will find some water ingress. The vent does a good job of removing the water and I've done it at least once every wet season for the past four years without creating any oven damage, so for us a vent is mandatory.Likewise a hole in the supporting slab to communicate with the underfloor insulation.
That is pretty extreme.

Let the builder use discretion....or take preventative measures.
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