#11  
Old 06-16-2010, 07:55 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Albany, NY
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

Just to let you know, in case you were worried, you are not alone in this kind of sketch work. I've been doing it for a few weeks too. I find it interesting to look at the evolution of my sketches.

I have a couple of comments, but please take them with a grain of salt: the only oven building experience I have is reading threads here. With that in mind, here are some thoughts.

I'm not sure you want all the cut blue bricks in the same vertical line. I would think separating them would be stronger.

Also, If the cut blue bricks are close to the entrance, you will not see them when you look into the oven. The way it is currently drawn gives you a seam in the back right.

The running bond floor will certainly work, but people seem to prefer the herringbone pattern.

I think connecting the cast arch to the dome could be tricky. But you might be going to all brick now.

All the best,
Jon
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2010, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

I could definatley stagger them. If anything it would individualize the odd spot more. The archway will probably be done with halved brick. I will probably just cut them to fit the form of the archway. For each chain that meets the opening I will cut those to form fit as well.

whenever I get a quote on local materials I will start my build.

Thanks for the input
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  #13  
Old 06-17-2010, 01:51 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in Albany View Post
The running bond floor will certainly work, but people seem to prefer the herringbone pattern.
Indeed, and I think the reason for the herringbone is when you slide the peel along the floor it will not hit a joint perpendicular to the movement, all of the joints would be at 45 degrees to the movement, this will allow smoother movement and probably minimise the chance of catching and chipping a floor brick.
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  #14  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Dino_Pizza's Avatar
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

I agree, herringbone is easy to do, looks interesting and I can attest to the odd edge that sticks up here and there and my peel and pans slide right over.

Also, I was just about to discourage you from cutting a brick into so many little pieces. That's a lot more cuts, a lot more $25-$100 diamond blades and bricks dust/clay caught in the wet-saw's water pan is a pain to wash out every day. It's also harder to offset the vertical joints to avoid longer cracks.

HOWEVER, that said, for a 42" oven using half bricks, we (most) end up going to 3rds anyway by the 4th course and soon after near the top, 4ths, 5ths and more to close the thing up. So cutting whole fire brick into smaller pieces early on is only a little more work. But still, although I certainly can appreciate the look of tiny brick pieces (it would be so cool ) After you finish it, you don't see it that much in your oven. IMO just using 3rds for the whole thing (ok 4ths) would get you there too without much more work.

Also, I really like how you plan on going without a tall soldier. You are correct, it is a week spot (though certainly not a real issue).

Also remember: You want your oven to be made of firebrick with as little of mortar as needed to hold it (ideally). Smaller bricks will help you get a tighter fit if done well but so will good taper cuts (hopefully better than mine ). I used FB's Refmix for 70% of my oven and I love it...really strong stuff.

Great job on your sketchup and it's admirable you are planing this out so well. It will be a better build for all thought and work.

-Dino
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  #15  
Old 06-18-2010, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

The Brick texture in sketchup is just to show how that is the floor brick and not a piece of FB board or something. I plan to do a herringbone pattern. I did not recieve a response via email. However today I drove over there as the place is right by where I work. I didnt get a full spec on anything other than the fact that a split fire brick would cost me $1.43/brick . I am now the happy owner of a free sample of one . I am thinking I will cut the split brick as it is 1 1/4" and the dimension originally planned is 1"x2.5x4.5". The Dimension now would be 1 1/4"x 2 1/2"x 4 3/8" . I am going to see if its viable to split this block along 3 lines in the block to get 3 regular blocks and one 1 and 1/4" x1 1/4" block for the top of the dome.

Dino I appreciate your input and I'd like to know is the refmix still available? I don't see it in the FB store. I am generally not informed on where I might get some. Either way I need a choice of mortar.



My father was telling me that him and his father had built a furnace once and that the way they split the brick was to weld a piece of metel sticking up off a platform like seen above. So I am going to be experimenting a little with my free brick. In the mean time make of this what you will.

Thanks so far for your input
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  #16  
Old 06-22-2010, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

I'm not certain the thermal mass of this 42" dome made with 1" thick brick would be any higher then a dome made with 2 1/2" thick brick. The dome is still 42" at the base and I presume hemispherical.

A dome with thicker brick might have more refractory mortar but the question is which holds more heat (technically which has a higher specific heat). It's actually possible the mortar has a higher specific heat and that this oven would heat faster. A quick google search and I can find a value for the specific heat of fire brick, but nothing for refractory mortar (and I'm sure both fire brick and refractory mortars vary a lot).

Has anyone done any measurements to try to figure out which takes more energy to heat up? (E.G. make a chunk of refractory mortar with the same weight as a chunk of fire brick and heat both with a torch for 5 minutes and measure how much the temperature changed? You would want a small mass of both so you don't get confused by the conductive properties.)
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2010, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

I talked to the makers of Heat stop 50 today. They indicated teh density of heat stop 50 mortar is about 75% of firebrick, but they had no data on the specific heat or conductivity of the mortar.

He agreed with my guess that heating times for mortar and brick would be similar (but I think he was just guessing).

He asserted, as did Dino, that the mortar is intended to be used for narrow joints to hold the fire brick together.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

When designing your entry way, consider that when cooking, you have to reach in and see in. You may want to consider making it as shallow as possible - just deep enough to support whatever vent / chimney you decide on.

I may be missing something, but if you want to use thinner bricks have you considered "splits" which are 1 1/4 x 4 1/2 x 9 ?

Last edited by Neil2; 06-25-2010 at 11:17 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2011, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

An update-

.I will be posting some pictures of progress soon. As for the brick layout of the dome I'm thinking about making a dome like Wiley's steel dome. http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f43/...oven-3717.html (Steel Dome Oven) It's a better design IMO. I feel as though I have similar recources and ability. However, I "don't remember" seeing Fondu Lafarge on here or any mention of mixing it with basalt or taprock when I was looking into casting (can anyone provide me with a link or fill me in on how it's used?)

So now that the rain is subsidingwhere I am I recently poored the floor of my foundation (not the hearth/oven floor to avoid confusion) and I got my head back into the firebrick layout of my oven. In consideration of shortening brick I just did a little google sketchup designing and some math and to make a long explanation short it seems that generally tapering your brick is more cost effective and more efficient.

My Fathers Father used to own a galvinizing business (he also used to collect junk) but he apparently had to cast something in refractory to use as a smelter ...and so after telling my dad about the design of the brick he says "ya know ther's another way you can do that." I went on to tell him about how cracking is a real problem with these builds but he insisted "not if you do it right" and so I'm now inclined on maybe looking around for a steel container to go with a Wiley design (my dad may even have an old one) or looking for something castable.

If there are any among you who think that I shouldn't take this route speak now ... if not speak later and I will probably only be up to pooring my oven floor anyway.
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2011, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: JayMez and the Oven Design

I don't know anything about pooring, but if you are going to cut bricks I would tell you to get a saw. Any saw, that is to make nice clean cuts. Breaking them sounds like a nightmare when you want to make a specific size brick. Most people use the somewhat disposable Chicago brick saw from HF.

Mike
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