foundation for cold weather

[Mingy]

Hopefull, it'll work out: did you get past the first winter ok?

Builders can be useful to consult, but they are in business, which can mean doing something for $20K when they can get the same result for $5K. Probably the worst people to ask would be concrete suppliers since they are in the business of selling concrete. Inspectors know the building code backwards and forwards, but the code often does not address specific things, and, in any even, often has all kinds of options.

When I designed and built my house, I bought the code and read through it (it doesn't address pizza ovens or other small structures. Even then, following code doesn't garantee success: I built an 800 square foot deck, 100% inspected and per code, and two of the vertical, sonotube supports went up (permanently) after 2 years. I can't even get anybody to tell me how this is possible. Fortunately, it is fixable: jack the deck up a scosh, trim the posts accordingly, and lower it down.

Did you finish your oven? Mine is mostly done: I just have to put a stone veneer on the outside, make the door, and finish seasoning it.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Mingy

Hopefull, it'll work out: did you get past the first winter ok?

Yes, it has made it through last years really tough winter we had here in New England. Last year I had the foundation and the stand completed before the winter. This year I have the oven with almost all enclosure done. It is still ok, but this winter is very mild. Which maybe worse for frost heaves, more freezing and thawing cycles.

Originally Posted by Mingy

When I designed and built my house, I bought the code and read through it (it doesn't address pizza ovens or other small structures. Even then, following code doesn't garantee success: I built an 800 square foot deck, 100% inspected and per code, and two of the vertical, sonotube supports went up (permanently) after 2 years. I can't even get anybody to tell me how this is possible. Fortunately, it is fixable: jack the deck up a scosh, trim the posts accordingly, and lower it down.

I also built a deck three years ago with the same sono tubes and posts. Those seem to be working quite well and is solid as a rock(so far)

Originally Posted by Mingy

Did you finish your oven? Mine is mostly done: I just have to put a stone veneer on the outside, make the door, and finish seasoning it.

I need to finish closing the back and finish veneering the sides. Here is a pic of present progress. btw: now the wife wants me to extend the patio around the back of that counter to the back end of the oven!
John

[Mingy]

Niiiicccceeee!

I was thinking about using bricks for mine. My house has a brick exterior that looks like your bricks. My wife wants a rustic look, meaning stones. I looked at natural stone veneer and they wanted $4K :^0 ! So I figured I'd walk around my fields and use those rocks.

Very nice work.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Mingy

Niiiicccceeee!

I was thinking about using bricks for mine. My house has a brick exterior that looks like your bricks. My wife wants a rustic look, meaning stones. I looked at natural stone veneer and they wanted $4K :^0 ! So I figured I'd walk around my fields and use those rocks.

Very nice work.

Thanks Mingy, Those are actually pavers that I am using on their sides for a dry stack look. My wife is in charge of the decorating aspect, I only let her know what I can or can't do... which btw is different that what could be done verses what can't be done! lol The pavers weren't that expensive, and we couldn't find brick the color she wanted. I hope this holds up well, I am using type S mortar for the "veneering" of the pavers.

[Dino69]

Aegis,

That looks great. I am lovin' your roof lines.

I will have to ask my building inspector about the footing for my oven. He said, "footings below frost line." I will ask to see if there is an alternative.

Mingy,

I read an article a while ago that said something along the lines of if you make a pier foundation the piers should not be "attached" to the slab. It, meaning the slab, should almost ride on the piers. The gentleman in the article placed something between his piers and the slab. Like a felt or tar paper. Does that sound correct?

David

[flyfisherx]

John, you have done very well. Things are looking great. I think we tend to worry too much and over analyze everything we do. BTW Mike at Southbury Stone and Supply hooked me up. I made the mistake in bringing my wife....now I'm doing 8'x 9' cultured stone veneer on my living room fireplace. This will hopefully help my mortar skills when I get to my dome.

I too was worrying about frost, but as Mingy said, you don't see foundations on sidewalks. I think at best they dig down 8 or 10 inches, put down a gravel base and pour concrete.

I am going the sidewalk approach. I live on serious ledge. I can't put a shovel anywhere in my yard without hitting rock

Original poster JGV109: I live in New England and see no issue with a floating slab as long as your not attaching it to any other fixed structure.

[Mingy]

Originally Posted by Dino69

Aegis,

That looks great. I am lovin' your roof lines.

I will have to ask my building inspector about the footing for my oven. He said, "footings below frost line." I will ask to see if there is an alternative.

Mingy,

I read an article a while ago that said something along the lines of if you make a pier foundation the piers should not be "attached" to the slab. It, meaning the slab, should almost ride on the piers. The gentleman in the article placed something between his piers and the slab. Like a felt or tar paper. Does that sound correct?

David

Most cities don't look at code for buildings below a certain size, usually about 100 square feet. Also, code is primarily associated with the safety of habitable buildings, which is obviously not the case with respect to overns. In the case of an oven, you want to pay attention to fire codes are another matter. I would ask any inspector to show me where code calls for a 36 square foot structure which is non-habitable (basically along the lines of a dog house) has any code requirements whatsoever. You don't want to make war with an inspector, but he's not the guy excavating and pouring and extra yard of concrete for nothing.

I'd ask a structural engineer if I had any doubts, but I don't have any doubts because I have one 24x40 foot building sitting on a slab on grade for 12 years and will have a 40x100 foot one built this summer. The existing building and the planned building slabs were both designed by structural engineers. This is required by code more to make sure the total load (building, contents, snow) will be adequately supported by the slab, especially around the periphery which bears the majority of the weight of the structure. Long story short, in a slab on grade building, the peripheral concrete is about 12" thick (I don't have the plans with me) and has a fair bit of rebar in it. This is just because of the weight of the building, contents (the new structure is 4000 square ft and has a second floor) and snow, not because of frost heave. Of course, if I had a soft soil like sand or something it might be different.

In any event, Usually they put tarpaper (or kinda like a cardboard tarpaper) so one concrete thing doesn't bond to another. Nonetheless, if your slab is sitting on the ground and it is on piers below the frost line, frost heave will cause the ground to force up on the concrete. If, for example, you have rebar between the piers and the slab, this will produce tremendous forces on the slab and piers. Perhaps the piers will be lifted, perhaps the slab will crack, maybe you'll be lucky and nothing will happen. If the slab is not fixed in any way to the piers, than it'll go up and down with no stress, which is exactly the same thing as if there were no piers there.

[Dino69]

Thanks, Mingy.

I will have to go down there and have a non-confrontational meeting with him. He actually seemed like a nice guy. Admitted he had no idea what I was doing. Maybe he just threw out the "footing below frost line" thing because he didn't know what else to say.

Thanks again.

David

[Mingy]

Its good your inspector is nice, most of them are but they have to put up with a lot of BS and irate people sometimes. I try to use a sort of collaborative approach. You might be able to find the local codes on line and now where you stand. Do some research on 'slab on grade' construction and bring it with you.