#11  
Old 07-01-2010, 04:31 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

Some have used vermicrete, I think I saw you're using this to cover the oven.

Since you're local, you may be able to find scrap insulating board at some place like foundry service in Santa Fe Springs.

Just a thought.

Chris
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2010, 04:47 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,108
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

You got that right. I am on door 3 and already figuring out door 4. I also plan on making an uninsulated door to use while cooking hot, like over 500 degrees with fir still in the oven.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2010, 04:49 PM
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Les Les is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,851
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

I posted this sometime back. I obviously didn't do a lot of cooking - probably let most of the heat out checking the temp's. As I mentioned, I believe the FB door is steel plate, it will work, and by far, it is easy to fabricate.

Saturday at 6:30 PM after the fire; hearth=900 deg.
Saturday at 8:00 PM after pizzas; hearth=555 deg.
Sunday at 9:00 AM hearth=447 deg. - cooked a coffee cake
Sunday at 4:30 PM hearth=374 deg. - cooked coconut shrimp
Monday at 6:30 AM hearth=288 deg.
Monday at 4:45 PM hearth=244 deg.
Tuesday at 4:45 PM hearth=170 deg.
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Last edited by Les; 07-01-2010 at 04:52 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-01-2010, 06:16 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

Hi Les!

The one factor you fail to mention is that in Carson City your daytime temps can be 242 degrees F! (Okay, I am exaggerating, but...) )

Actually I am impressed by your profile but I suspect your oven is also dryer than most. Mine gets close in a drought but...not when it is wet!

Thanks for putting up the profile!
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2010, 06:28 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 41
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

Someone should make a post of a step by step process of how to make an insulated door. For those few people who aren't really good at that kind of stuff, ie me.
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  #16  
Old 07-02-2010, 07:42 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

BSO, There have been a few posts on making doors and at least one on what not to do. I think the problem is that everyone that builds has a different inner entry to plug, so the doors always differ. This said, the materials that do best for the inner surface are, Steel and some Aluminum alloys. The reason for metal here is durability to survive the banging around that the doors get.

After this metal inner layer, the next layer is insulation. This insulation is sometimes loose vermiculite or stonewool or insulating blanket encapsulated inside a metal door. Sometimes vermicrete, or rigid insulating board is sandwiched between inner and outer door surfaces.

Then some outer surface is attached, this is often metal again. The problem with all of this is the weight and metals transfer heat. Some have tuned these doors by adding braided fiberglass rope to seal the door against the oven. The least amount of air movement in and out of the oven once the door is in place is best for heat retention.

Because of the weight two handles are attached most often by bolts through the door structure, these bolts of course create a conduit for heat migration but since the doors are heavy the handle connections need structure and running the bolts through the door gives the needed structure.

In my opinion, this is one area of the oven that needs re-thinking. I think that if the inner door and doorway were prefabricated the door could be hinged and a much cleaner, tighter more efficient seal could be created.

The logical place for this to happen first is in the modular home ovens. I envision a door or set of two doors that swing clear when the oven is in use and swing shut when we’re done. A real advantage would be that full or nearly full thermal isolation of the oven can be had and pizza temps day after day would not require nearly the fuel that is needed for current ovens.

I can imagine leaving the oven deck at 850F the night before and coming in the next night and having it at 750F. These sorts of thermal efficiencies would easily allow the normal household electrical system to maintain a pizza oven..


Chris

PS I need to really insert that I understand that the WFO Pizza oven cooks not only by the stored heat in the floor but also the by the affects of radiant and convection heating. An electric oven doesn’t completely emulate a WFO and it would really need some engineering to accomplish an electric oven that could compare.

Last edited by SCChris; 07-02-2010 at 08:09 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2010, 07:56 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 106
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

I'm in door making mode myself, and am thinking simple and with materials I already have on hand. For my inner door, I like the old world idea of a thick slab of hardwood (2" mesquite), possibly soaked in water before use to help resist the effects of heat and to give a quick injection of moisture into the baking.

For the outer door, a piece of 1/4 inch plate with some support brackets welded on the bottom to hold it up and a couple of handles...also an air space on the bottom, maybe an inch and a half or two.

I sure they won't be my only attempt at doors. Looking forward to hearing about other ideas and designs.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2010, 08:16 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

Hey, Fx.
You could take a FB like metal door and High Temp silicone or High Temp Epoxy, HTS or HTE, a 1" or 2" piece of Insulatin board to the inside. I know that my door/IB board never is beyond 100F on the outside and this relates to the ambient temp of the entry not the internal temp of the oven, so something like a HTS or HTE should bond things.

Chris
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2010, 10:21 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 41
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

I have a lot of insulation blanket left. If I sandwich 3-4" of insulation in between two pieces of SS will that work? I will have a wooden door made to put on the outside but I'm just saying for the insulation part, will that work? I went to home depot and the silver high temp tape only goes up to 200F, is that high enough or would I need to get something that withstands more heat?
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2010, 10:43 AM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Do I really need an insulated door?

The tape isn't going to work for you so a high temp something is what you’re going to need to find.

At the top of my doorway the surface brick temps run higher than the oven floor. It makes sense really, the exhaust gas can and does run over 1000F and the brick that these gasses flow over will heat to those levels. These high temps span the thickness of the door in the top of the arch and entry to the flue, and because the outside of the door is often built for outside of the oven temps it can suffer and breakdown here.

The blanket is going to be great as long as you can contain it in some kind of structure.

And any door is better than no door. If it comes down to using a wooden door soaked in water and waiting for the temps drop before using it, this is how it was done and is still done by many.


Chris
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