#31  
Old 02-02-2011, 06:45 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 44
Default Thieves!

The bricks were beautiful and brand new, neatly stacked, and left alone for no more than 25 minutes. I just can't bring myself to believe it was an honest mistake. Nonetheless, I did put up a couple of signs, but I'm not hopeful.

The heartwarming part of the story is several neighbors heard about it, and wanted to start a paypal donation fund to help me pay for new ones! Very sweet of them, though I declined since the expense isn't that much of an issue. It is more the annoyance of having to go buy more!
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  #32  
Old 02-02-2011, 07:04 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,143
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

There is no single best design, just certain parameters that should guide the design.

It should be a smooth transition from the total area of the entry to the area of the flue.

The sides, if possible, should be at no more than 33 degree angles. This will dictate, in part, the height to width ratio of the smoke chamber (the name for the area above the inner arch to the bottom of the flue).

This area is the most flexible part of the build, though, so you can get away with almost anything, so long as the structure will support it.
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  #33  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 44
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I've cut bricks for the first two courses, and my floor, out of 12"x24" skagits, which are hard to handle.

Now I need to make my mortar. I'm planning on either 3:1:1:1 or 3:2:1:1. If I can't decide, I'll do 3:1.5:1:1
Any advice?

I have some gardening "dolomite" lime, any idea if that will work? Or do I need some sort of special lime suited to mortar?


Thanks!
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Compact 36" in Seattle-_dsc6404.jpg   Compact 36" in Seattle-_dsc6793.jpg  
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  #34  
Old 03-07-2011, 05:32 PM
GianniFocaccia's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Disneyland, CA
Posts: 1,517
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

Hydrated lime is the recommended product. Here is the thread:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f2/n...tar-14114.html (Need information on lime used for mortar.)
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  #35  
Old 03-07-2011, 06:00 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 346
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

In the second picture, you have the bricks standing on end, and it seems like it's a pre-fit situation. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but if you do what your showing, won't the dome be much higher than recommended?
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  #36  
Old 03-07-2011, 06:06 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 44
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

GianniFocaccia, thanks for the info and link about the lime.

Tman1,
Lord help me, I'm messing with the design. If I used a true hemisphere, the little area where the dome met the floor wouldn't be very usable, because it would start sloping right away. This way, the dome starts vertical, then dives over more abruptly than it would in a hemisphere. Think of it looking like a squashed hemisphere, like someone very heavy sat down on top of it. The attached picture is NOT my final profile (just messing around), but it illustrates what I'm getting at.
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  #37  
Old 03-07-2011, 07:28 PM
Mike D's Avatar
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Berkeley, Ca.
Posts: 342
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

I think others have said that a full brick height first row is not so stable. I have read over many threads and most don't recommend a full first course. But it's your oven, so don't let me get in the way. I have seen people use a full brick but on the outside of the floor. I think a half brick height on the first row is standard.

I am at the same stage as you right now. It's getting exciting to see some actual progress isn't it.

Mike
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  #38  
Old 03-07-2011, 08:11 PM
GianniFocaccia's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Disneyland, CA
Posts: 1,517
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

OTT,

A lot of Pompeii builders would love to have the dome shape that you have laid out in your pic. Your design, however, suffers from inherent weaknesses caused by gravity (precast domes exempt). Your flat dome ceiling cannot provide an acceptable line of thrust and is susceptible to collapse. Also, your soldier course is not ideal to withstand the side thrust forces a flatter dome will place on it unless it is buttressed.

The conventional compromise is to shorten the height of your soldiers or build a hemispherical dome and place it on top of two horizontal courses.

This explanation of dome geometry may help answer some questions for you:

Auroville Earth Institute, training courses, workshops on Vaults, Arches, Domes(VAD), stabilized rammed earth walls, compressed earth blocks, vaulted structures, compressed stabilised earth blocks, rammed earth.
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Compact 36" in Seattle-fb-oven.jpg   Compact 36" in Seattle-img_8102.jpg   Compact 36" in Seattle-fifth-course.jpg  
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  #39  
Old 03-07-2011, 10:12 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 44
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

GianniFocaccia,
I certainly appreciate your input, and your advice. I am well aware that a perfect dome is a stronger shape than my squished hemisphere. My idea was to distort the shape just a bit, but it is possible that I've gone too far. One detail.... That picture I posted of the dome shape was not my final shape that I settled on, it simply illustrated my point pretty well. The shape I settled on is a little less agressive, but now I'm worrying that it is still too far from a perfect hemisphere.

My existing plan was to have full height soldiers (as depicted in my picture of me pre-fitting my bricks. Those bricks are cut on top at 22.5. Then the next brick is also cut 22.5. That gets us half way to 90, and my plan was to make that curve as gradual and hemisphere-like as possible.

What I'm hearing from you, is that you don't think that my plan is sound...

What do you think of soldiers, but instead of standing them at floor level (as depicted) I start them outside of the cut floor, which would make the dome 2.5" shorter before it started to curve in.

I'm still pretty attached to the idea of distorting the shape of the hemisphere, at least a bit.

Also, all those bricks are cut at 22.5. I could recut, I suppose. What is the maximum angle you think is reasonable?

Thanks for the advice!

Cedar
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  #40  
Old 03-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 235
Default Re: Compact 36" in Seattle

The quick planning tool I got from John's link is to get a piece of chain, let it droop down a distance equal to your dome height with the ends of the chain at a distance equal your hearth diameter, and the curve it traces is the best dome profile for those measurements. Anything flatter will probably collapse without buttressing.

Of course, you could carry the flat top of the dome with some steel rings, but that introduces different expansion characteristics into the mix. Not to mention additional fabrication.
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