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  #51  
Old 06-19-2007, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

Hey Chris,

Thanks for posting that. I think it will be very helpful -- particularly to other folks considering doing your design.

To Maver's point, if you simply coated the outside of the oven with a layer of RefMix (or whatever), that would hold the structure together and seal the oven, so that even if the individual brick pieces continue to expand and contract, that no heat or smoke could escape.

What do you think?
James
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  #52  
Old 06-19-2007, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

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Originally Posted by maver View Post
Chris, your description suggests that the bricks are contracting with heat, which if I recall correctly is the expected performance of firebrick when heated.
I really don't think bricks shrink with heat. About the only thing that shrinks when it gets warmer is ice, and that's a special case. There are a few materials that have a very low expansion rate, like fused quartz and Invar, but they too, are special cases. Materials have different rates of thermal expansion, but the C/E of firebricks and refractory mortar should be closely matched. I wonder if it has something to do with the two kinds of refractory mortar used?

I'm really confused about what's going on here, and concerned because I have a dog in this race, so to speak. Is the thin oven inherently unstable? It's the same thickness or more as the pre-fab ovens...

I'm also a little embarrassed because I was the cheerleader for the geodesic oven. Hmmm.
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  #53  
Old 06-19-2007, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

OK, I'm sure I saw the contraction idea here about six months ago, but it makes no sense now that I consider it. I suppose someone might have been trying to convey that firebrick may expand less than other materials. Allow me to retract that idea.
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  #54  
Old 06-19-2007, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

Yes the cracks go all the way through and there was some smoke stain on the blanket.

I believe the oven expands when heated - each brick according to the heat applied.

This means that the oven expands slightly during and then contracts after each heating cycle. As I kept the outer side of the oven un-insulated during most of my drying fires - that means the differnece in heat expansion was quite different on the insde skin vs outside skin. Full insulation would have almost made that heat difference negligble during the slow heat ups that I used. No insulation means that inside was expanding while the outside tried to stay reasonably the same - result cracks..... AKA my fault vs. design concept.

That is the mechanisim that I see - If this is the mechanism that caused my oven to break - then coating the outside joints with heat resistant mortar should be a reasonable patch to keep the pieces in place once I put all the insulation back in place!!!

Any other ideas out there??? Thanks!!!

Christo
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Last edited by christo; 06-19-2007 at 06:58 AM.
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  #55  
Old 06-19-2007, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

Quote:
Originally Posted by christo View Post
<snip> If this is the mechanism that caused my oven to break - then coating the outside joints with heat resistant mortar should be a reasonable patch to keep the pieces in place once I put all the insulation back in place!!! <snip>
Have very little scientific background but, being brave enough to throw an idea out, what if you coated the oven while still hot? Or at least warm. This would put the oven in the expansive state.

J W
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  #56  
Old 06-19-2007, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

First I say, Do not despair!

My flue tiles did not crack (that was Fio), but I did have several cracks in my dome that were leaking smoke.

I heated up the oven and applied furnace cement in the cracks. It seemed to do the trick.

Ace - Rutland Fireplace Mortar

Hope that helps!

Drake
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  #57  
Old 06-22-2007, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

Moving ahead. Thanks for all the suggestions and moral support. I think I will do a combination of the refmix layer and furnace cement. I wil use the refmix layer with foil to create a slip plane and use the furnace cement to cover all joints after the slip plane is created. I think it will all be good!!!

Time for the entry arch - A few questions come to mind.

I believe I will assemble on the ground vs. making forms and assmebling in place. Based on the picture attached - I think I may assemble the left and right sides and then put together later along with the keystone.

I figure I should wait 4 days before attempting to pick up the arch and assemble in place. Is this being over conservative?

I had the black granite shelf made at the local countertop place from scrap. they charged me their standard price for machining and polish the bull nose only. They also gave me a matching sink cutout that will be the mateiral for the keystone. (The keystone in the picture is a piece of paper spray painted black).

When installing the decorative arch, I understand it should be separate from the dome - how do people stablilze the arch when there is no surrounding brickwork? Would be acceptable to put brick ties in the joints of the arch while prebuilding and during installaion bend these and cement to the firebrick opening with refrax after installation of the arch?



Thanks!!

Christo
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Last edited by christo; 06-22-2007 at 11:46 AM.
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  #58  
Old 06-22-2007, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

Christo

I fully enclosed my entry, so I used a layer of cladding and screwed the durock to it so the arch isn't going anywhwere. But, early on I had considered leaving the first half of the entry exposed. My idea was to keep the arch as clean as possible, so my plan was to secure the base of the arch with "pins". I was going to drill small hole in floor and matching hole in base of first arch brick. Then cut a nail in half and mortar it and the brick in.
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  #59  
Old 06-22-2007, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Christo's Cucina

Quote:
Originally Posted by christo View Post
Time for the entry arch - A few questions come to mind.



When installing the decorative arch, I understand it should be separate from the dome - how do people stablilze the arch when there is no surrounding brickwork? Would be acceptable to put brick ties in the joints of the arch while prebuilding and during installaion bend these and cement to the firebrick opening with refrax after installation of the arch?



Thanks!!

Christo
I used brick ties attached to my oven (I used a rotary hammer and masonry anchors) and then built the arch with the brick ties in the joints, but I built it standing with a form and I also mortared the front arch to the vent - there is not a lot of heat in the vent area so I don't think a thermal break is needed. Maybe if you want to preassemble you could do the vertical sides and two top segments all separate, then attach the sides with brick ties at the corners and on either side of the keystone.

I'm glad you are moving forward with a patch plan for the dome. I wonder how many ovens leak a little smoke once they are fully cured and insulated? Most of us have not done the dissection to find out.

Marc
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  #60  
Old 06-28-2007, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Dinner!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by christo View Post
The picture shows the door with the temperature probe unit outside the the door (it sends temp readings about 50 ft to a unit inside the house!)
Hey Chris,

This setup looks great! Would you be able to post details of the unit, supplier and prices etc? There are some people here (and me) that would be interested.

Cheers, Paul.
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