#11  
Old 04-03-2008, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

I went ahead and ordered one of each. They have a $20 Smooth blade and the $26 Turbo blade. I plan on doing a ton of cuts trying to minimize the mortar joints. I will report back any differences in the way the two cut.

I think I originally misunderstood Dmun's response when he said, "Most makers looking for a close fit oven trim the inside edges for better fit, and let the mortar take care of the outside." Dmun, were you referring to cutting the sides of the brick as opposed to the top and bottom? I read it a completely different way the first time and came up with the following idea or it may have been what you were trying to say. Either way, will the following work?

It is just a partial taper of the bottom of the brick. It can be easily cut with a 10" saw and really cuts down on the size of the mortar joint. Only thought I had was that it may alter the Line of Thrust or cause some other instability. What do you all think?

Picture #1 is using a full half brick with no taper - all joints are > 1/2 inch alomst 3/4
Picture #2 is the same dome with the mini-taper - all joints are near 3/8 inch
Picture #3 is a detail of the brick and the cut.
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Beaglestorm's Oven Questions-1-full-brick.jpg   Beaglestorm's Oven Questions-2-mini-taper-brick.jpg   Beaglestorm's Oven Questions-3-brick.jpg  
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2008, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

Picture one is what almost everybody does. It works fine. The gaps that show on the inside are the gaps between bricks as they start to tilt in. This is what most makers trim to avoid.

Picture two is a nice way of tapering your bricks without needing a huge diamond saw. Who am I to say something is too much work? You'll get a better, stronger oven with less mortar if you do it that way. We'll all be cheering you on.

There's a post in today's newbie forum (Firebrick suitable for pizza ovens), on a lead on affordable low duty tapered firebricks. This might be worth paying a trucking company to send you a skid, if it could save you two weeks of work.
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2008, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

A week late! I could not find firebrick under $3.50 here in El Paso, so I had a pallet of Low Duty trucked 800 miles from Dallas. It just arrived on Wednesday. Total price with shipping was 1.20 each brick. I would have loved to buy that tapered stuff, and with my friends trucking discount it probably would not have been that much more to ship from Ohio.

-Michael
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

Hey Beaglestorm,
Your drawings and oven dimensions are what I was planning on my own oven. A 42" floor with soldier course around floor, sitting on 2 layers FB board. I think I'd like to bring my height down to 18" as well. It makes for beautiful curve.
BUT HERE IS MY STUPID QUESTION: Your dome above the soldier course is basically the upper part of an almost perfect half-circle that's very slightly flattened. Is it ok to depart from a truer parabolla or catenary arch? Is the FB forum consensus that your design (especially with tappered cuts) is satisfactory and wont blow out (that's way to strong a term-I know) the sides? I really hope this is a non-issue because every catenary arch I draw addes courses of sharper in-ward tilting bricks and bigger gaps to fill or cut plus the "egg" shape of a catenary is kinda ugly compared to your dome drawing.
Thanks, Dino
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

Dino,
dmun knows this stuff really well. From my readings, the catenary arch is the strongest way to build an arch. The Pompeii pizza oven design departs from that half-egg shape catenary arch to maximize the radiant/infrared heat produced by the top of the dome being closer to the food being cooked. The Neopolitan style pushes that even farther, bringing the top of the dome lower in order to cook pizzas faster.

The higher the dome, the slower it will cook. There's no guarantees in life. The design works and domes built without tapered cuts are holding up and not blowing out the sides (so far as I know anyway)
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2008, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

We've never seen a complete dome failure. Someone made a big deal of a picture of a dome where a brick fell down. They've been making ovens in this shape for thousands of years. Cracks? yes. Collapse? Not so far. We're not Kool-aide drinkers here: If ovens were falling down, we would be talking about it.

The catenary - high dome - low dome question is just conversation. You can be completely sure that a pompeii oven built to the plans will be strong and cook well.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2008, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

beaglestorm I really like your idea of the mini-tapering, really smart, ...I am thinking to follow your idea, thanks Carlo
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2008, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

dmun & George:
Thanks about the dome shape question. It put my mind to ease. I've got my WFO site in the back yard ready for forming footings and Beaglestorms drawings is great (thanks for posting it!) .

Beaglestorm: Will you be putting the 2" of insulating board directly on top of a 4" concrete slab since there is no need for a vermiculite/concrete mix insulating slab?
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2008, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

Wrote this before lunch but did not finish it and now most of the questions have been answered but I will still post it.. and yes I will be putting the insulation board directly on the concrete no vermiculite. It's actually 4" (2 - 2" layers in different directions) of Insblock 19 insulation for the floor.

I have been wondering about that question as well. I don't know if there will ever be a consensus. I am not a structural engineer, so I am kinda shooting from the hip based on what I have learned reading here over the past few months. I am still hoping a PE lurks around here and can give a calculated opinion.

The shape actually is an ellipse, or so says my CAD program, but overlaying a circle arc in the same space yields just a slightly different profile. I have not been able to draw a catenary arch in my CAD. I actually have a chain hanging on my wall right now to visualize it. I plan to print out my drawing full size then hang it on the wall and see how it matches up with the chain. RTFlorida did his with the same angled soldier but they were shorter and sat on the floor. Maybe he will give his thoughts.

I personally don't think that it really matters that much, after having seen the domes built on this site. With the hundreds that have been built… with 2” mortar joints to tight hairline builds. Arches of all profiles (most not true catenary), barrel, dry stacked brick box ovens, even just concrete and chicken wire. I am wondering if the is really enough weight to cause a short term failure. The haphazard calculation I did showed something like 2-4 pounds per square inch on the underside of the brick dome perimeter. I remember someone commented that a bad built dome may only last 50 years instead of 200.

Having said all that, I still not sold on the thought of all the outward pressure with the tapered soldier course. So, I think I am going investigate using the same height but eliminate the soldier and distribute the angle into half bricks all the way down using the mini-taper I drew above. I will draw it up and post it this weekend. I still have 2-3 weeks before my foundation is ready for the dome. Good luck and please share what you decided to do.

-Michael
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2008, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Beaglestorm's Oven Questions

Cool! Innovation and revolution. Me likes! What's the worst that can happen?
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