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  #171  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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Originally Posted by rsandler View Post
Is cement board not suitable for these temperatures?
bingo!

I doubt homebrew will hold up either. It has no shear strength, it will likely crack and fall off too.

Find a piece of scrap metal - preferably steel - and cut it with a jigsaw blade.

BTW, your wood face not really holding up, it is slowly turning into charcoal.
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  #172  
Old 05-13-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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Originally Posted by deejayoh View Post
bingo!

I doubt homebrew will hold up either. It has no shear strength, it will likely crack and fall off too.

Find a piece of scrap metal - preferably steel - and cut it with a jigsaw blade.

BTW, your wood face not really holding up, it is slowly turning into charcoal.
I agree stainless is ideal, un galvanized steel second and then aluminum.

The cement board will be temporary no matter what you do.

A cutoff wheel on an angle grinder also works well for cutting curves on sheet metal.

I agree with DJ a full burn on the outer surface of the door is just a matter of time.

Chip
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  #173  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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Originally Posted by deejayoh View Post
bingo!

BTW, your wood face not really holding up, it is slowly turning into charcoal.
Certainly; I meant "so far" and "in relative terms". I need to come up with a solution for that sooner or later (or else I'll need to come up with a new piece of wood!), but it is not a good stiff shake away from total destruction.

Quote:
I agree stainless is ideal, un galvanized steel second and then aluminum.
So, supposing I do that, what gauge am I looking for and how do I drill it? The trouble I had with my door mark I (with aluminum back and front), is that the aluminum warped under the heat and, lacking much in the way of rigidity, failed to really hold the edge in place. On the other hand, I could drill it with a standard drill bit and some persistance. I'm guessing that stainless, especially stainless thick enough to be relatively rigid, will not be so easy. I suppose, since my new aluminum edge piece has a full set of tabs bent around the insulation, I could use aluminum go for rivets this time, although I'm somewhat disinclined to do so.

I might try applying mortar as a temporary quick-fix; given that the inside of the door needs to withstand heat but isn't getting much physical punishment, perhaps it would hang in there for a bit?
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  #174  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Riffing off of the end of the previous post, how about this for crazy idea #73:

What if I were to remove the remaining cracked cement board, while leaving the bolts and nuts in place and protruding ~1/2 inch from the insulation. Then I mix up a batch of homebrew mortar laced with stainless steel fibers/needles, and spread a 1/2-3/4 inch thick layer on the inside of the door. In principle, you'd have something like the homebrew equivalent of a layer of reinforced, dense castable refractory, anchored to the rest of the door by the protruding stainless steel bolts and nuts. In addition to sealing in the insulation and resisting heat, it would have some thermal mass to reflect heat back into the oven for baking bread.

This is surely a terribly idea for some reason(s); I trust you all will tell me why?
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  #175  
Old 05-20-2013, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Hmm, no one responded to the previous post. Is that an indication that it actually isn't all that crazy, or (more likely) that it's such an incredibly terrible idea that I have stunned you all into silence?

More likely, I will track down some stainless sheet/plate and use that. Maybe get two and put one between the outer cement board and the wood.
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  #176  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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This is surely a terribly idea for some reason(s); I trust you all will tell me why?
You are correct.
The stuff will just fall off after a while.
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  #177  
Old 05-21-2013, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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You are correct.
The stuff will just fall off after a while.
So, humor me for a second here. I get that mortar will not make a very good bond with the insulation and aluminum, and so plain mortar would eventually crack and fall right off, same as the cement board is doing. But if I mix SS needles in, preventing it from cracking, and the SS nuts are on the ends of the bolts, where is it going to go?

Is my faulty assumption is that even with SS needles, 1/2-3/4" of homebrew will still crack, or is it something else that I'm missing?
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  #178  
Old 05-21-2013, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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So, humor me for a second here. I get that mortar will not make a very good bond with the insulation and aluminum, and so plain mortar would eventually crack and fall right off, same as the cement board is doing. But if I mix SS needles in, preventing it from cracking, and the SS nuts are on the ends of the bolts, where is it going to go?

Is my faulty assumption is that even with SS needles, 1/2-3/4" of homebrew will still crack, or is it something else that I'm missing?
You really have a fixation on trying to make your life more difficult, .75 inches of home brew will be very heavy, still very brittle at the edges, and not hold up over time. ie why not make residential doors out of concrete? Well because it is heavy and brittle and do not retain fasteners well under stress of movement. Moving things are rarely made from concrete. Usualy because of flexibility, moving items are made from wood, metal or plastic. And tempered glass is flexible just in case you thought of that as brittle. A thin sheet of stainless will be light, durable, heat resistant, non corrosive, flexible, and lastly will work.

But please, if you need to try it, go right ahead. And let us know how many cycles your concrete door lasts.

My metal door is over a year old and works just as well today as the day it was built, I have dropped it several times and on one occasion I even bent one of the corners, a pliers fixed it back to it's original shape, and have on average 3 firings a month and use it for 3-4 meals a week, each meal requires the door to be in and out several times.

Best of luck.

Chip
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  #179  
Old 05-21-2013, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Chip,

I'm not trying to make my life difficult, I'm just trying to figure something out that will work, and/or learn why alternatives won't work. I'd love to have a nice, sturdy metal door like yours (exactly like yours, in fact; it would be great to have 4" of insulation). But more insulation costs $$, stainless sheet costs $$ and is a pain to acquire, the tools to work with stainless (a welder or cobalt drill bits) cost $$, and I'm already cringing at how much $$ I've sunk into just making a bloody door. That, and from my previous attempts I seem to be fairly incompetent when it comes to working with metal. I can get a pound of SS needles online for around $15, and at least with mortar/concrete I kind of know what I'm doing.

If it's infeasible, because SS needles won't hold it together, or the edges will chip excessively, fine. I'll shell out for stainless, and try to figure out a way to assemble it that I'm less likely to screw up. I'm just trying to figure out if that's so, and why, just to fill out my own scanty knowledge.

FWIW, Tscarborough had a concrete door, at least as of a couple years ago: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/9/tw...html#post91821 (Two bad ways to make a door) So if it's totally crazy, at least it's not uniquely crazy

-Ryan
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  #180  
Old 05-21-2013, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

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Originally Posted by rsandler View Post
Chip,

I'm not trying to make my life difficult, I'm just trying to figure something out that will work, and/or learn why alternatives won't work. I'd love to have a nice, sturdy metal door like yours (exactly like yours, in fact; it would be great to have 4" of insulation). But more insulation costs $$, stainless sheet costs $$ and is a pain to acquire, the tools to work with stainless (a welder or cobalt drill bits) cost $$, and I'm already cringing at how much $$ I've sunk into just making a bloody door. That, and from my previous attempts I seem to be fairly incompetent when it comes to working with metal. I can get a pound of SS needles online for around $15, and at least with mortar/concrete I kind of know what I'm doing.

If it's infeasible, because SS needles won't hold it together, or the edges will chip excessively, fine. I'll shell out for stainless, and try to figure out a way to assemble it that I'm less likely to screw up. I'm just trying to figure out if that's so, and why, just to fill out my own scanty knowledge.

FWIW, Tscarborough had a concrete door, at least as of a couple years ago: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/9/tw...html#post91821 (Two bad ways to make a door) So if it's totally crazy, at least it's not uniquely crazy

-Ryan
Ryan,

Become a scrounger, Craigslist, garage sale, Thrift store etc you should be able to locate a SS Kitchen Trash can, old stainless grill door that the internal parts have gone bad on, non working stainless fridge or dishwasher, all good sources of nice thin stainless. Check out appliance stores that take the old ones from peoples homes, they often scrap this stuff out and will give you a door or panel for next to nothing.

I looked on DC/Craigslist for ====FREE=== 2 Stainless Gas Grills, 1 dishwasher, and one microwave. All good sources of stainless sheet metal.

There may be other good sources of thin stainless out there and if anyone has any ideas please chime in.

As far as cutting and fabricating. A thin metal cutting wheel on an angle grinder is all i used. I bent the metal with pliers, a hammer and blocks of wood. Drilling does not require cobalt bits. TI coated - the gold ones work just fine, and pop rivets work well but are not required you can use stainless sheet metal screws, you already have 4 bolts to hold it together.

Chip
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Last edited by mrchipster; 05-21-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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