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  #11  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

Well, he is wrong. Flat wrong, no question about it. Send him to contractortalk.com and ask him to post in the masonry forum.
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:26 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

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Originally Posted by NJOven View Post
I just called the mason and my info was not correct. He did not replace the soaked floor "insulation" like he pulled out, but he took out part of the 5" concrete under the floor such that 2" fire bricks sit on top of 2" fire clay which is on top of 2" concrete. He abhors insulation and has been doing this a long time.
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Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
Well, he is wrong. Flat wrong, no question about it. Send him to contractortalk.com and ask him to post in the masonry forum.
I don't know if you are trying to help me or defend something else as your reply is, frankly, a bit confrontational. You didn't even respond to my factual correction on depth of materials and use of fire clay. Not looking for an argument here, but seems a bit cultish here???
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

Not confrontational to you, but to your mason, very much so. He is wrong, and not insulating under the hearth is not only wrong, it is simple common sense. I would like to convince him he is wrong so he will quit building ovens incorrectly. In my job I have to deal with it, and believe me, it sucks to have to tell someone that their brand new 5 or 10 thousand dollar oven will never perform as expected, even though it was built by a 20 year mason. Just because someone does something wrong for 20 years does not make it right.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

2" of fireclay will act as a good leveler for the floor bricks, but not particularly good as an insulating layer unless he added around 50 % vermiculite. Can't understand why any oven builder would abhor insulation, it is fundamental to the efficient functioning of any oven.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

As someone who has a leaky hearth (built on a Scott style hearth) I would expect you to be able to do pizzas without too much trouble - but you will likely find you need to recharge the hearth every couple of pizzas OR keep a pretty big fire going or both. Oven management will take more attention. Your biggest limitation will be that you will not retain heat well for retained heat cooking and baking.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

Thanks--this is helpful. Others made it seem my oven was incapable of melting butter.
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

If you are referring to me, that is exactly what I told you. Your oven is what it is, I want to work with your mason so that his future ovens will perform to their potential.

TexasSD is primarily a breadmaker (and a damn fine one at that), so that style of oven (Alan Scott) is more suited for his use. It still is insulated, but it has a greater mass to heat load for retained heat baking.
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  #18  
Old 08-04-2012, 05:18 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

Ok, would it add any benefit if insulation could be added under the bottom of the floor slab above the hearth? Basically, it would be 1.5" fire brick floor, 2" fire clay, 2" refractory cement and then I could add some kind of insulation underneath the cement?

Thanks
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2012, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

Hard to teach old dogs. Bottom line, if you have a forest at you disposal for fuel, don't mind 2-3 hr heat ups for a couple of pizzas, and are fine with that, then you have no issues.
The fact remains, you mason is exactly that, a mason, not a oven builder. Doing things one way for 20 years does not make it the best way. Homes were built for thousands of years without insulation and people were always cold or hot, it was shelter and thats all that mattered. You would not think of doing that today, we continue to evolve and look for better ways to build the mouse trap.
All anyone has been saying is you don't have an efficient design that offers much versatility. Hopefully you oven does what you want it to. Good luck, better get to splitting more wood.

RT
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2012, 07:04 AM
Peasant
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
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Default Re: Update on my floor which exploded from steam re wet insulation

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Originally Posted by RTflorida View Post
Hard to teach old dogs. Bottom line, if you have a forest at you disposal for fuel, don't mind 2-3 hr heat ups for a couple of pizzas, and are fine with that, then you have no issues.
The fact remains, you mason is exactly that, a mason, not a oven builder. Doing things one way for 20 years does not make it the best way. Homes were built for thousands of years without insulation and people were always cold or hot, it was shelter and thats all that mattered. You would not think of doing that today, we continue to evolve and look for better ways to build the mouse trap.
All anyone has been saying is you don't have an efficient design that offers much versatility. Hopefully you oven does what you want it to. Good luck, better get to splitting more wood.

RT
How is this responsive to the question I had asked above? You guys have made your point--multiple people have told me I got taken advantage of by a contractor that is not skilled in this area. Only recently in this thread have people even indicated my oven was capable of cooking pizza....

As for my needs, if I could could approx 5-7 pies, and a paella dish, for a dinner event I am happy. I won't mind adding wood during cooking. I really dont need the oven to retain 400 degrees the next morning so i can cook bread or roasts. I now realize my setup, without having used it yet, is not optimal according to the board experts. Was looking to see if there are measures I can take to help--as indicated by my last post before this, but it appears some keep wanting to hammer home the initial point re lack of insulation. I will wear a scarlet "I" on my forehead and allow myself to be stoned in the town square.

As some feedback to some on this board--maybe tone down your condemnation on passionate issues and offer practical solutions to help once you made your point rather than make someone who spent good money feel worse than is necessary.

Last edited by NJOven; 08-04-2012 at 07:06 AM.
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