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  #221  
Old 09-16-2013, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

It seems like your only issue is the insulation layer, so tearing the oven apart doesn't make sense.

If it was me, I would remove the perlcrete and wrap the oven with ceramic, cover that with a new layer of perlcrete, then apply the stucco.
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Last edited by stonecutter; 09-16-2013 at 10:38 AM. Reason: edit phone post
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  #222  
Old 09-16-2013, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Putting blanket over the top of vermiculite is a bit topsey turvey. There is not much heat left by the time it has reached the outside of the vermicrete. You really want your top quality, expensive blanket insulation next to your refractory. I'd be stuffing up any cracks in the vermicrete with more vermicrete. Your second idea of building a dog kennel over the thing may be a good solution, but I'd still fill up any cracks with vermicrete first. I've not built a barrel oven, but they are more suited to cooking lots of bread if that's your intention. Their rectangular shape allows you to maximize the floor area, when loading lots of loaves. We only cook a few loaves at time, (how much bread can a family eat) so our little oven is quite adequate. I only fire the oven for one hour of flame to do bread and it is therefore not properly soaked with heat, but it's enough to do a few loaves and uses hardly any fuel.
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  #223  
Old 09-16-2013, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Thank you stonecutter!
But why remove anything?
IMHO, insulation is insulation no matter where in the assembly!
Is it going to improve anything by removing something and then adding again?
Why not just add to the outside and call it good?
Please give me your justrification for the response!
Your opinion is always appreciated to the utmost!
Mikku
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  #224  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Davids,
The few times I have had pizza parties with neighbors and acquaintances they have asked about making pizza on a regular basis for sale. But we have had bread available for their sampling as well and they really like the sourbread that I made "first time" under guidance of "Laurience teacher" and they like this other Finnish rye bread as well....nothing like it in Japan anywhere except if special ordered from Laurence! so I am in a funny situation---I am looking for a way of producing income as I age---and taking advantage of the good tasting pizza and sourbread recipes that I currently have in my arsenal... Pizza making on Saturday and Sundays... specialty breads during the week. Gotta make a living when you get old and do not want to drive 1 1/2 hours each way to get to jobsites! Just thinking ahead now---way too late to make a difference! Should have been thinking about this situation when I was 30--not nearly 65!
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  #225  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Build a big oven then and you can spend lots of time cutting and splitting wood to keep you fit in old age.
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  #226  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

David mentioned why...ceramic is a better insulator, and would perform better next to the casting.
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  #227  
Old 09-17-2013, 04:16 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
It seems like your only issue is the insulation layer, so tearing the oven apart doesn't make sense.

If it was me, I would remove the perlcrete and wrap the oven with ceramic, cover that with a new layer of perlcrete, then apply the stucco.
Stonecutter, thank you as always!

You are giving me two different answers at the same time. I really do not want to wait for perlcrete to dry out AGAIN! That is the slowest part of the entire build!

What is the advantage of having the ceramic fiber closest to the oven?
I can understand you wanting it in the Normally preferred location, because of your perfectionist desire--but would there be any significant "measurable
difference" to what I suggest with just adding it to the exterior?
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  #228  
Old 09-17-2013, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Quote:
Originally Posted by david s View Post
Build a big oven then and you can spend lots of time cutting and splitting wood to keep you fit in old age.
This is the first time you have answered like Brickie, but he is always quick with his answers and likes to give a friendly dig once in a while--for you it is entirely out of character!

Please give me some specifics that back up "why" the ceramic fiber should be closest to the oven.

I totally disagree with the comment that it performs better in that location. To me that is completely incorrect. The performance of the insulation is the same no matter where in the assembly it is placed. The R value does not change! If it is listed in R! The physical characteristics do not change! So please inform me where I am wrong!

My replies are a little out of order because I had trouble with logging in last night--something that I was doing screwed things up so that I could not log in until tonite!

Yesterday--a little cabin fever because of a typhoon passing right over my location! Lost of wind, rain, storm damage, flooding, but everything is fine--I tied down things that were important--the rest---just let them fly away!
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  #229  
Old 09-17-2013, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
Stonecutter, thank you as always!

You are giving me two different answers at the same time. I really do not want to wait for perlcrete to dry out AGAIN! That is the slowest part of the entire build!
I'm not sure I know what you mean by two answers...can you clarify?

You just have to decided what to do with suggestions from the forum. From my point of view, scraping the dome ( or selling it) isn't the way to go...from what you have described, it is well made. Taking off a layer of perlcrete should not be that big of a deal, since you have no finishes over it.
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  #230  
Old 09-17-2013, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post

What is the advantage of having the ceramic fiber closest to the oven?
--but would there be any significant "measurable
difference" to what I suggest with just adding it to the exterior?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post

Please give me some specifics that back up "why" the ceramic fiber should be closest to the oven..... The performance of the insulation is the same no matter where in the assembly it is placed.
"The performance of the insulation is the same no matter where in the assembly it is placed."

Yes, this is true. But the reasons I suggested putting the ceramic next to the dome are these....

1) Ideally, your best insulator should be on the dome. Perlcrete/Vcrete contains a material that conducts heat fairly well...Portland cement. Cermaic has a greater R value which will do a much better job at containing the heat that the mass is absorbing from your fire.

2) Wetness effects insulation. The outer layer of insulation will have a better chance of getting wet, than the inner layer. And, ceramic blankets or mineral wool absorb and hold water even better than Vcrete/perlcrete.

I believe you could tear off the old insulation, wrap with ceramic, and have a new P/V crete layer done in less than 8 hours.
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