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  #191  
Old 06-14-2013, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

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Originally Posted by brickie in oz View Post
Im not camp. ................................
Well I'll be d@mn. A "redneck" from Mississippi is learning to speak a second/third language!!. I think it was General George Patton ( at least in the movie) who (I think) gave credit to George Bernard Shaw, who said "we are two countries separated by a common language"
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  #192  
Old 06-16-2013, 09:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Has the topic of super plasticizers been addressed before? Somehow, I feel like I am stepping into an old discussion that was left to die along the road...

I've searched but user posts do not go back that far and I don't want to waste the time to dig further...so if there is "old info" point me in the right direction.

NO TIME TO BURN WOOD THIS WEEKEND! SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS FOR A WFO!
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  #193  
Old 06-16-2013, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Super plasticizers are not really a DIY product.
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  #194  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

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Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
Super plasticizers are not really a DIY product.
Unfortunately this is true. However the fact remains that adding additional water to a concrete mix in order to achieve the desired flow , leads to a weaker product. The additional water increases the volume resulting in looser bonds. If you try to buy the stuff you can only obtain it in commercial quantities. I had to get 20 L which was the smallest quantity I could buy. It is enough to treat LOTS of concrete when addition is around 1ml/ litre, (that's 1/1000 for the imperial Neanderthals.) if you know people in the building trade you may be able to score a smaller quantity from them.

Last edited by david s; 06-17-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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  #195  
Old 06-16-2013, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

All concrete in the US does not contain SP, it is very much a special order, and on the large projects I have worked on it is added at the jobsite, not at the plant. Bad concrete with no plasticizer is still usually better than incorrectly dosed SP concrete, which is why it is not and will not be a DIY product.
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  #196  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

This topic came up when I described mixing bag mix concrete with a plaster's drill and adding water in excess of bag instructions. I do not know the ratio of professionals to DIYers who use dry mix but it is a convenient product.

The point that I was making was you do not need a huge mixer to make concrete, but the drill I use is the price of a mixer. It is important to add your ingredients consistantly to maintain ratios between batches--regardless the batch size.

This forum is a mix of professionals and week-end DIYers. The topic of SP concrete should not be off limits because it takes accurate measurements to achieve proper results.

The minimum quantity for the BASF product is also 20 liters so you must justify its use before purchasing.
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  #197  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

It is not offlimits, it is just counter productive. The professionals already know how to use SP, or at least when to use it, and the DIY guys (and girls) are not well served by even making it an option. When you are building a one-off personal project, the risk of failure is not worth the benefit, even though they may be considerable when it is used correctly in the correct application. Building a WFO does not have any area in which the risk or cost is worth the reward regarding the use of SP.
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  #198  
Old 06-16-2013, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Mikku, if you want to talk about SP and related products, join this board and you will get all the discussion you want about construction beyond the scope of this forum:

Contractor Talk - Professional Construction & Remodeling Forum, News, Reviews, and Blogs | ContractorTalk

I am there as Tscarborough, same as all boards.
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  #199  
Old 06-16-2013, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

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Originally Posted by david s View Post
Unfortunately this is true. However the fact remains that adding additional water to a concrete mix in order to achieve the desired flow , leads to a weaker product. The additional water increases the volume resulting in looser bonding.All concrete that is delivered by truck contains superplasticisers.
Sorry, I was wrong. It is also only added by the concrete batchers on special order here too. Still doesn't alter the fact that its use will give you a superior product if you use it correctly.
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  #200  
Old 06-16-2013, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Yes it will, key words being, "if you use it correctly". Again, for the construction of a WFO it is simply not needed, period.
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