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  #101  
Old 06-01-2012, 07:40 AM
UtahBeehiver's Avatar
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Deejayoh,

Another option for a source of SS channel are businesses that repair or salvage old resturant equipment or medical equipment. Alot of this equipment is high grade 316 SS. I was able to get a 3' x 6' sheet of SS for scrap prices from an old autoclave unit (for my oven door eventually) and 1"X2" tube (hearth thermal break) from a resturant prep table that was headed to the scrap yard (see pic). I guess you have to determine if it is worth your time. But for me, that is half the fun to see what I can get to build my oven with recycled materials. I did snitch the thermal break idea from GianniF though.

Russell
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  #102  
Old 06-01-2012, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Amac - Thanks. I understand now

Russell - good thought - although the cost of the tubing seems to be in the $10-15 range so I am not sure how much work I want to do to find it!

Question for the crowd -

Refractory caulk - anyone used this as a sealer for a thermal break? Seems like it could do a better job of keeping the smoke in the right place than Ceramic Fiber rope; Has low thermal conductivity (basically same composition as CF board); would be easier to install; and is pretty cheap to boot

Kaowool Caulk Details
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  #103  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

You could make SS channel by cutting the bottom away from SS tube with angle grinder?
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  #104  
Old 06-01-2012, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Dennis,

I've seen this question asked previously, and seem to remember that caulk is not considered a viable long-term solution. Installation and price advantages aside, I don't see why it couldn't be used to 'seal' a piece of ceramic rope on the back side. I think for applications the size of ours, rope cost isn't prohibitive as long as one can purchase just the length needed.

As far as your idea to use IFB on the back of the thermal break, I like it. It's inexpensive, easy to cut and readily available.

John
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  #105  
Old 06-01-2012, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Quote:
Originally Posted by GianniFocaccia View Post
Dennis,

I've seen this question asked previously, and seem to remember that caulk is not considered a viable long-term solution. Installation and price advantages aside, I don't see why it couldn't be used to 'seal' a piece of ceramic rope on the back side. I think for applications the size of ours, rope cost isn't prohibitive as long as one can purchase just the length needed.

As far as your idea to use IFB on the back of the thermal break, I like it. It's inexpensive, easy to cut and readily available.

John
Thanks
I was reading through old threads and I saw comments about high-temp silicone caulk not being suitable for long-term heat exposure but don't recall seeing any specific comments about this refractory stuff. It seems to be the same insulating materials as the rope and board - just in a different medium

But you are right, the rope isn't too spendy. It was more that I thought caulk might give a better seal - but it sounds like it is more like a putty than a caulk so maybe not.

On the IFB - I saw a comment you made a while back suggesting that it might be tough to get the mortar to stick to it. Do you have any more background on that issue?
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  #106  
Old 06-01-2012, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Quote:
On the IFB - I saw a comment you made a while back suggesting that it might be tough to get the mortar to stick to it. Do you have any more background on that issue?
No direct experience, but since that post I observed a video somewhere showing a worker bonding multiple yard-long 'columns' of IFB that ended up making a very rigid sheet of material. I also discovered there is such a thing as IFB mortar, so the sky's the limit.

BNZ Materials | Insulating Fire Brick
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  #107  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Update: We are experiencing a phenomenon known locally as "June-uary". It's cold and rainy, which means I have not been able to make any progress on my vent arch.

So that has given me lots of time to think about my approach, and to focus on identifying sources for what remaining supplies I need. Here's what I have decided to do:

Heat break
+ At the back (dome side) I have about a 1/2 inch gap between the vent arch and the dome arch. I am going to stuff that with a 3/4" length of ceramic fiber twisted braid - typically used as kiln gasket. This won't be exposed to any flame, so it should be ok
+ Inside the arch, There is about a 1/4" gap between the dome arch and the vent arch. I am going to fill that with Kaowool moldable. It looks like it should easily handle the temps - and since I have a relatively narrow/deep slot - I don't think it will ever work its way out once it is in there.

Entry floor
+ For the break between the oven floor and the vent floor, I decided to go with a piece of 0.5" x 1.5" Stainless rectangle tubing. I am going to cut the bottom of it away, except for at the two ends. It will basically be a channel, except I'll leave about a half inch of material at each end so that will sit level. I found a supplier for this right down the street, so decided to stop shopping!
+ For the entry floor itself, I found an installer with scraps of soapstone from whom I can get a piece cut to fit. I figure it will probably be 2 cm thick
+ Under the soapstone, I am planning to use IFB splits. I am still debating this, but I don't really see any benefit to using firebrick. I don't need the entry floor to be hot, and I want less mass to pull heat out of the oven. Plus, the IFB is easier to cut to exactly the height I want, less prone to crumbling/breakage, and I already bought it

Enclosure
+ I am going with the "doghouse" style. I really like the dimensions of Smuth10's oven - so am going to sketchup something like that for the roof pitch and height.
+ I've decided to use cultured ledgestone drystack (lick and stick) for the bottom, and stucco the top. I will probably also do a faux chimney detail in the front to break up the space
+ I'm going to use trim stone that matches the drystack for the decorative arch
+ the roof will be standard tab to that matches my house
+ I plan on pouring a concrete counter at the level of the oven entry

Chimney
+ I already purchased 8" Duravent anchor + 24" stainless pipe + cap.
+ I plan to build a chase for it and cover with the same material as the base
+ Duravent has standard chase covers available for their dual wall, so that is going to dictate the dimensions of my chase
+ I went with the chase vs. having the stainless go through the peak for both aesthetic and cost reasons. Through the peak flashing for round pipe is very pricey, and I don't really like the way it looks.

Lots more work to do, that is for sure! I would love any feedback on my plan. I didn't mention stuff like dome insulation - but it's on my checklist too.
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Last edited by deejayoh; 06-07-2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason: edit links
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  #108  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Quote:
Originally Posted by GianniFocaccia View Post
No direct experience, but since that post I observed a video somewhere showing a worker bonding multiple yard-long 'columns' of IFB that ended up making a very rigid sheet of material. I also discovered there is such a thing as IFB mortar, so the sky's the limit.

BNZ Materials | Insulating Fire Brick
I can report back that the mortar seems to be sticking well to the IFB. I am using it as part of the buttress for my entry arch.

The arch is free standing from my dome, and I have about 2 inches of insulation that extends beyond the edge of my arch on each side. For the buttress, I mortared 2 IFB to each side of my arch over the insulation. Then I am going to mortar a 8" x 8" cinderblock to that firebrick and to the concrete hearth . That way, my arch is effectively buttressed to the concrete base, but there is a layer of IFB between the arch and the cold concrete that should keep it from losing too much heat into the base.

Since my entry arch is already isolated from the dome, I wasn't too worried about finding a perfect solution - but thought this was better than using a more heat conductive material for the buttress.

I also thought that if the mortar connecting the IFB and the arch doesn't hold, there should still be sufficient tension between the arch and the cinder block that it will serve it's purpose.
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  #109  
Old 06-10-2012, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

Lots-o-progress this weekend: Entry arch completed and buttressed (is that a verb?); flue completed and chimney fitted; huge mess is backyard mostly put in garbage bags.

Right now I am curing with a worklamp, but it only gets up to ~100 degrees. Think I will borrow Tu's idea and use Chafing fuel for the next stage of the cure.

Just need to get the soapstone & stainless tubing for the entry, and refractory caulk for the heatbreak this week and the oven will be complete.
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  #110  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Starting new 36" build

That looks fantastic Dennis - I know you said this isn't a race but I think someone just flashed past me on the finishing straight. I really hope that buttress is over engineering because it never even occurred to me that my entry arch would need buttressing. Hard to resist lighting a few fires in there I'd say, but take your time - the longer the mortar has to cure the better.
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