#11  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:40 PM
Serf
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 11
Default Re: Second course angle

Thanks everyone for all the information. I really appreciate it, and appreciate that I am probably well in over my head on this project - but I'll carry on!

Chip and Deejayoh - thanks so much for all your ideas - though I really don't understand the way dj boiled "it down to the basics" with the slick little diagram. Any further explanation on the "radius issue" would be wonderful.

Deejayoh - Thanks for putting the work into putting together that wonderful program. It will save me loads of time I'm sure. However, I don't understand some things....

For example, you suggested that I input minus 10.5 inches for the IT height. Can you please explain where you got this number from? My diameter is 36 inches and the distance from the radius to the top, inner edge of the soldier is 20.25 inches.

Buttressing - I have looked this term up and would love clarification on how it relates to building an oven. My assumption is that buttressing in this situation is a process by which an edge is cut into a brick and then the next chain / brick is set partially into this edge to promote some downward force as opposed to complete horizontal forces pushing outwards. I'd love it if anyone out there could clarify this definition for me.

How critical is it for me to buttress the soldiers? I have not seen anyone doing this - perhaps because most people are building higher domes.

Finally, my plan is to use sand to shape the dome. Any thoughts on this would be great.

Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to comment.

DM
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-21-2013, 01:10 PM
mrchipster's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Second course angle

Because your walls (soldiers) are so tall and the forces related to the dome you are building are outward your soldiers will tend to crack apart. Or worse fall over.

Many builders have created cable or chain systems around the soldiers to hold them in. Others have built secondary walls around them.

With a hemispherical dome the force is translated into the floor in your case it is translated into rotational force into space on the tops of the soldiers.
Attached Thumbnails
Second course angle-image.jpg  
__________________
Chip
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-21-2013, 03:13 PM
deejayoh's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,343
Default Re: Second course angle

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmyeli View Post
Chip and Deejayoh - thanks so much for all your ideas - though I really don't understand the way dj boiled "it down to the basics" with the slick little diagram. Any further explanation on the "radius issue" would be wonderful.

Deejayoh - Thanks for putting the work into putting together that wonderful program. It will save me loads of time I'm sure. However, I don't understand some things....

For example, you suggested that I input minus 10.5 inches for the IT height. Can you please explain where you got this number from? My diameter is 36 inches and the distance from the radius to the top, inner edge of the soldier is 20.25 inches.

DM
Hopefully I can break this down - What the graphic I posted showed is the shape of your current build - the diameter of the oven and the height of the walls - as the rectangle in the middle. The circle that goes around them represents the effective radius of the arc (circle section) that you will in order to connect the sides of your dome and still get the correct roof height (assuming I am right that you are targeting 16"). The thing you should take away from the picture is the rectangle + the arc at the top. That's the profile of the inside edge of your finished dome.

The reason that you need to input -10.5 in the spreadsheet is because that's the way the math works out for you to get a dome that is that flat. Don't worry about it, you aren't going to use an IT anyway. But if you decide to use a plywood form, you will want to base it on a 26.5" radius circle.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-21-2013, 03:31 PM
texman's Avatar
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 587
Post Re: Second course angle

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmyeli View Post
Buttressing - I have looked this term up and would love clarification on how it relates to building an oven. My assumption is that buttressing in this situation is a process by which an edge is cut into a brick and then the next chain / brick is set partially into this edge to promote some downward force as opposed to complete horizontal forces pushing outwards. I'd love it if anyone out there could clarify this definition for me.

How critical is it for me to buttress the soldiers? I have not seen anyone doing this - perhaps because most people are building higher domes.

Finally, my plan is to use sand to shape the dome. Any thoughts on this would be great.

Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to comment.

DM
I agree with Chip and DJ on the buttress. Those 9' soldiers and a low slope oven change the dynamics and stress of your build. It will work, it just needs some help around that first course to hold the dome as well as your arch. You may me able to incorporate the buttress into your outer wall. I will be honest though- I am not sure that you have much room to buttress that first course looking at the size of you stand. Hopefully someone has some ideas for you.

Texman
__________________
My Progress:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-21-2013, 04:18 PM
Journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 398
Default Re: Second course angle

Quote:
Originally Posted by deejayoh View Post
Effective radius will be 26.5", because the walls are high and the dome is so flat. He won't be able to use a string unless he can get the center point under the floor
Agree, my typo from my phone probably made it hard to read, what I tried to say was you can do it in CAD or lay it out on the ground. Doing it on the oven proper won't work, darn pesky floor in the way, lol.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-21-2013, 04:32 PM
UtahBeehiver's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,900
Default Re: Second course angle

Mr. C.

I am going to buy you a new pad of paper, you have been doing a lot of drawing the past few days. Much appreciated, I'm sure by the posters.
__________________
Russell

Experiences are the names I call my mistakes!

Link to my build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My Picassa Picture Log
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:15 PM
mrchipster's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Second course angle

My computer with my cad system took a snooze and decided to destroy the hard drive. I am waiting for the replacement to arrive and will rebuild it from my backup, so back to the old fashioned way pad and pen. I hope they are readable.
__________________
Chip
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:15 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,075
Default Re: Second course angle

If you use the outer surface to buttress you are limited on your insulation value. I have seen it done several ways, but you WILL have to buttress the soldier course in some fashion.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:19 PM
mrchipster's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Second course angle

This thread has a good example of a cable providing the extra support for a low dome oven like yours.

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/l...and-19449.html (Low dome 42" in New Zealand)

Here is a photo from that thread.
Attached Thumbnails
Second course angle-image.jpg  
__________________
Chip
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-22-2013, 06:29 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 11
Default Re: Second course angle

Wow! Thanks everyone so much for all this input. I truly appreciate your time and ideas - big time!

Chip - thanks for including the idea about wrapping the dome up with cable. This is something that I am going to look in to.

Deejahoh - I understand the radius diagram now. Thanks! Actually, I am using a sand form so I will be able to use the information from your diagram when it comes time. And the cool thing is that I actually understand it!

I would like to consider using firebrick to buttress the dome - I may have room to do this but need to know some things: How high and wide does the buttress need to be?

For example, my soldier is 9 inches high and the next course will add another 2.5 inches. Does the buttress need reach the top of the second course or to the soldier?

Deejayoh - Would I be able to use the concepts in your radius diagram to determine the length of the base of the triangle buttress?

Thanks again, everyone. I am enjoying learning all this new stuff from everyone!

DM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question on angle of front bricks Terrence Brick Oven Photos 0 05-13-2009 05:08 AM
Dome Angle Question james Pompeii Oven Construction 0 01-17-2007 01:26 PM
Angle iron and rust KISS4me Newbie Forum 6 10-05-2006 06:23 AM
Need to find old Info. on angle grinders, etc. Marcel Newbie Forum 12 08-17-2005 11:07 AM
oven opening construction james Pompeii Oven Construction 3 03-20-2005 01:44 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC