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  #171  
Old 04-27-2013, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Sorry!

I should have said nothing is more precise than the human hand in a rubber glove. My hands are just fine!!
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  #172  
Old 04-27-2013, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Brickie... I am not building an enclosure and using loose perlite... masonry has been enough of a challenge... never mind adding carpentry to the mix!!
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  #173  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
You might want to buttruse the whole outside with an inch of mortar Bed in some chicken wire for added strength.
Regards dave
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  #174  
Old 04-28-2013, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie M. View Post
I thought the permacrete insulation layer would help buttress the whole thing up a
Yes and no.
With a barrel vault you need some serious buttressing to stop the roof from pushing the walls out and falling in.
The roof just wants to lay flat and will be for ever trying to push out the walls, every time you light the oven and it expands the walls will push out just a tad more each time.

Permacrete will sort of help but wont have the desired buttressing effect to stop movement.

You need as Dave has suggested a covering of concrete (mortar is useless as it will just crack and fail) and some reinforcing, chicken wire, fencing or barbed wire will work too.
The reinforcing needn't be too thick, 2" should be fine.

If you go too thick with covering there will be trade off with fuel and time needed to bring the oven to temp, if you go too thin it will just fail and not work.


Wow!!
What a very verbose reply from me......
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Last edited by brickie in oz; 04-28-2013 at 12:32 AM.
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  #175  
Old 04-28-2013, 06:23 AM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

OK ... once I get the roof in place I will work on some serious buttressing... no humorous buttressing for me! The buttress is just applied to the the perimeter walls ... yes/no ? Maybe I can make some kind of ribs with brick like in boat hulls or is it best to keep it simple with a layer of reinforced concrete between the wall and the perlcrete?

Time and fuel I have... just don't want to end up with flat bread.

Thanks!
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  #176  
Old 04-28-2013, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Problemo!! I will run out of deck if I add 2 inches of cladding under the insulation... I think I will have to add 3 little brick buttresses to each of the side walls & let the bricks fall where they may... wish me luck!!!
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  #177  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:42 AM
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Default Actually... No Problemo

I decided to go forward... I am going to do the vault ceiling in strings of arcs that way if one fails only one section will fall... the door opening will be approximately 10 inches so if there is a partial collapse I can just slide in there and fix it with a wee wedgie!!

I leaned my full body weight into what is already built and it seems sooooo solid I don't foresee the weight of 8 or 9 bricks pushing the wall out... probably missing something very obvious... give me a hint if so!!

I'm off to the beach to see if there are any architects out clamming... very low tide this morning!
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  #178  
Old 04-28-2013, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Actually... No Problemo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie M. View Post
I decided to go forward... I am going to do the vault ceiling in strings of arcs that way if one fails only one section will fall...
Thats the weakest way to build a vault, less strength than if they are all tied in together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie M. View Post
I leaned my full body weight into what is already built and it seems sooooo solid I don't foresee the weight of 8 or 9 bricks pushing the wall out... probably missing something very obvious... give me a hint if so!!

I'm off to the beach to see if there are any architects out clamming... very low tide this morning!
No good asking an architect to fix your oven, its like asking a car designer to fix your car.....

Take a look at this site for buttressing.
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  #179  
Old 04-29-2013, 06:14 AM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Thanks Al...

Today I have a new plan that I think will work... on top of the 3 brick oven side walls that are already built I am going to lay 2 rows of slightly offset splits (like a wee set of stairs) at the angle required for the vault roof. I have some splits that I can use for additional wall rib buttresses. The precision of the edges of offset splits will allow me to use the running pattern to tie in the roof bricks and provide greater stability than the mortar and chunks.... I hope!

Another thought... would a configuration of a few arcs like the ribs in a wooden boat but made of iron be possible inside the vault to support the bricks... we have Jake the blacksmith out here who is amazing and could make me something simple... or is that toooooo much? Or maybe all it takes is some kind of bar like you see holding together the walls of old gothic architecture.

Annie ... about half way to the finish!
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  #180  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie M. View Post
Another thought... would a configuration of a few arcs like the ribs in a wooden boat but made of iron be possible inside the vault to support the bricks... we have Jake the blacksmith out here who is amazing and could make me something simple... or is that toooooo much? Or maybe all it takes is some kind of bar like you see holding together the walls of old gothic architecture.
Fire and or high heat and steel dont go together, well they do, but in all the wrong ways you are talking about.
The steel will stretch and twist in an oven situation.
and be useless.
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