Go Back   Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community > Pizza Oven Design and Installation > Getting Started

Like Tree7Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 05-22-2013, 08:27 PM
Laborer
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New City, NY
Posts: 94
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Thank you all for the good advice. Explain a little more about these "through bolted kickers" Tscarborough? I can't quite picture them with my limited knowledge.

Also thanks, Mikku for the advice. It may not be clear, but the inner of the two joists on the long edges are held up with metal hangers attached to the posts. Do you still think I need notching?

If the picture isn't clear, I was trying to highlight the small spot that you can see the metal hangar peeking out. It's the kind of hangar where the flanges fold inside, commonly used for joists attached to the very end of a deck ledger board.

Concrete pour day is Friday, weather permitting. A friend is available that day to help me lift concrete into mixer. Can I do it in a slight drizzle, weather speaking?

Online calculators calculate 10-12 bags of concrete for a 4 inch slab, about 20 square feet. My slab will be about 22 square feet, but only 3.5 inches thick. Speaking of that, do I do the 3.5 inches in addition to the 1/2 inch hardibacker board? Or do I include it in the total?
Attached Thumbnails
Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0549.jpg   Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-another-view.jpg  

Last edited by ronwass; 05-22-2013 at 08:42 PM. Reason: added another picture
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-23-2013, 01:44 AM
stonecutter's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Carolina,USA
Posts: 1,549
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Ron,

A kicker is just a brace, usually on an angle. But im pretty sure that isn't being suggested, in this case, the brace will function like a jack stud does in framed openings...supporting a header.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Current WFO build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-23-2013, 01:47 AM
stonecutter's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Carolina,USA
Posts: 1,549
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Slight drizzle for a pour is fine...much better than a blazing hot day. Keep the plastic handy if in case it gets worse and to cover up when you finish....you don't want excess water in the slab.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Current WFO build -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-23-2013, 02:40 AM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 590
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikku View Post
The customer always being right - phrase refers to they ultimately hold the purse string. You can argue till you are blue in the face, the customer may threaten to take a case to court, or whatever. If you can satisfy your customer by doing quality work to their expectation. You will get "paid" and that is the KEY word in staying in business... Keep your customers happy, collect your money, build a good reputation--and reap the rewards of building nice things and using your imagination and skills! And part of doing a good job is "exceeding building requirements" in doing better that what is "minimally required" so that you do not get troubling call backs! The call backs are what kill you. A little 50cent job can cost thousands of dollars just to send in a crew to do some little stinky thing that you should have done right in the first place!
What in this quote do you disagree with? It is a formula of good business practice. I see nothing foolish in what I said.

99% of the time, when you meet a customer you really do not know what they will be like to work with.....with a few exceptions. I find working with people who are moderate income--like most tradespeople...They are very easy to work with. They understand that it requires a lot of work and planning to do something and they do not hesitate paying a bill. There is another class of people who are easy to work with---those who are very wealthy--I mean really wealthy. They know what they want and have no hesitation in paying a bill.

The group of people who I have had the most trouble working with or collecting are those who want all to believe that they are wealthy...the wanabee wealthy. They will do everything in their power to make it impossible to satisfy them--and if you can...they want a discount to top off their satisfaction!

There are other groups ...but if you have been in the business for a while, you know what to look out for. These are just a few observations I have had over the years... But I have never failed to collect on a bill, and never had to use any legal means to collect. A few have taken longer---and done installments but they are all clear now!

I hope that you are not seeing something in my words that is not there or implied. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-23-2013, 05:55 AM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 2,861
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Actually, I am suggesting 45 degree supports at each corner, as much for looks as for support.

Mikku, let's not pollute this gentlemans thread with business philosophy.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:39 AM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 590
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

I stand by my building advice. Notching in would be the best course, second add cleats as Gulf suggested. The rest is just decoration. If it adds nothing, why waste the time. You should build like you did not need special fasteners--only dowels--or wedges like timber framing. Follow that technique and you will be fine. But these techniques take a little time and talent to master. The easy way out is seldom the best way! Do a web search on timber framing, you might actually enjoy what you find.

I suppose someone is going to quote "the easy way out is seldom the best way" to muddy the waters again--Please don't waste time or space!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:53 PM
Laborer
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New City, NY
Posts: 94
Default Picture of hangar for the record

Here is a picture of the joist hangers I used in case it wasn't clear.

Sorry, my dumb mind still can't picture how I would put 45 deg. corner braces on here. I'm very grateful for the suggestion. If you have a chance to point to a picture of what you are talking about that would be amazing.

Unfortunately, weather report for tomorrow is for thunderstorms all day. I'm going to delay the pour until Monday, memorial day. I hope I can get a friend to come over. Of course, I'll have to feed him and his wife barbeque to entice them.

Mikku, I am going to take your advice and add some kind of attachment from the rebar, out of the concrete and into the post. Since you think my frostproofing is not perfect, and it likely my stand will eventually go off level, it would be a shame if the 800 pound slab, with 800 pounds of brick on top of it slid off. (I still dispute that it will come anywhere close to "popping out of the ground.")
Attached Thumbnails
Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0556.jpg  

Last edited by ronwass; 05-23-2013 at 09:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-24-2013, 04:48 AM
Master Builder
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Tochigi Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 590
Default Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Hello Ronwass:
The advice is to run your rebar around the perimeter first. If you have something to bend rebar to 90 deg bends, make sure that the "L" section is (40x1/2") = 20" length. You can cut 4 pieces and make identical bends and you should be fine. Use some regular tie wire to assemble the joints where they cross. Additional rebar added to make a 6" grid both ways would make an excellent slab. Rebar is extremely cheap--so is concrete when you mix it yourself. Concrete by itself is brittle, the combination of concrete and reinforcement make it a superior building product.

when you decide to pour your slab, make sure that the rebar is elevated from your lower form. this can be done with broken pieces of concrete block, just small pieces that will hold your mat elevated when you install the concrete.

Next issue: Frost-footings: I was called out by a moderator and James saying that I was confrontational. I react badly when someone disputes something that I know as a fact. Enough said: You are asking about frost and I'll try to give you some examples.

Frost does not act on single things inserted in the ground, it acts on "everything" in the frost zone.

If your building code says 3' frost footings, then if the bottom of your footing is 3' below frost and it is part of a foundation assembly that is monolithic, then you should have no problems with heaving. But IMHO, the footer and anything placed on it must be attached OR the post or sonotube or cement block will lift and separate from the footer.

Building codes are not written to single out your oven structure, they are written to cover all types of construction. If you build a 10 story building in your area and have inadequate depth frost footings, the frost will act on the foundation and lift the building. Or seriously break up the foundation.

Think of frozen water mains. Some are cast concrete, some cast iron, some PVC or other composite materials. Some of the bursting is caused by the soil around a pipe heaving and physically breaking the pipe. Most water pipes if water is actively flowing through them will not break only under extreme circumstances.

Think of frost simply as water in the ground. Look at your ice tray in your refrigerator next time you mix yourself a drink. You put water into your tray level with the plastic form and when ice forms, it is domed. That is what water does in the ground...it expands when it freezes and it grabs onto anything that is embedded in the ground and raises it. Fence posts do rise, the dirt settles beneath the post each year and it eventually either completely rots off or pops out. Ranchers are constantly repairing fences and resetting posts in cold regions. I'm not making this up--I have no reason to do so!

I have done several foundations on homes where the owner did not want a deep foundation installed--below frost. Usually in Minnesota and northern climates, basements result from complying to building codes. If an owner does not want a basement you still need to address the frost issue. I have used grade beams which are simply a footing placed on edge instead of flat---double up on the rebar and install styrofoam insulation to the vertical surface. In addition to that, styrofoam laid horizontally around the perimeter of the structure --sloping slightly away will prevent frost from getting below the grade beam. But this design is based upon the retaining heat in the floor assembly...the styrofoam prevents the heat from easily escaping--and the heat loss keeps the ground from freezing. The vertical width from the foundation equals the "code requirement for frost footing" If your code says 3'--then horizontal styrofoam 3' width should satisfy code requirements.

I do not know if this technique is broadly accepted for construction. On the projects that I did, we submitted architectural plans; signed by the designing architect and other documentation by structural engineer. In all cases, the plans were approved. Some of the structures built were 30 years ago with no signs of failure to foundations.

There are other studies for perma frost areas where you build so that no heat escapes your structure that will act to "thaw" the frozen ground. So your are maintaining an "always frozen" build and the expansion is eliminated.

The foundation type that I earlier explained is sold commercially as something like "BIG FOOT" but this is a recent product. I developed my ideas in the 1970's well before "Big foot was marketed".

I really don't think you need my building advice. I am sure you are not going to start disassemblying what you have. That would be "crazy foolish". When I was giving the advice, you were in the "build phase"--easy to make adjustments.
Live with what you have.

As far as treated materials goes, read up on it. I do not know what the current treating chemical is but many include arsenic. I would have to actually have to search the meaning of "ACQ" treatment. Still not nice stuff to have around kids.
It has its' place but not where easy contact is possible.

This post is addressed to you--Ronwass. I would be happy to help you in any way. I hope your had a great day today... Japan was sunny and clear--we had temperatures in the high 80's and it was wonderful.. A great late spring day!
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-26-2013, 08:11 PM
Laborer
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New City, NY
Posts: 94
Default ready to pour tomorrow

OK, here I am all rebar-ed up. The weather report is looking good for tomorrow, not too hot. I may have to do a little more fine adjusting of the forms. My plan is to take my borrowed mixer, put it up about a foot on a piece of plywood on blocks, so that it will be not too high to load and just about the right height to pour out directly onto the platform.

I'm thinking it is going to be about 10 80 lb. bags.

I've never poured so much concrete before. If my 1/2 inch durock board splits, I'm going to have a big mess to clean up off my lawn below the platform.

Wish me luck.
Attached Thumbnails
Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0557.jpg   Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0558.jpg   Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0559.jpg   Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0560.jpg   Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.-img_0562.jpg  


Last edited by ronwass; 05-26-2013 at 08:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-26-2013, 08:18 PM
Les's Avatar
Les Les is offline
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 2,799
Default Re: ready to pour tomorrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronwass View Post
If my 1/2 inch durock board splits, I'm going to have a big mess to clean up off my lawn below the platform.

Wish me luck.
You want to support the durock. If it doesn't break there is a good chance it will bow. Just run a couple of 2x4's length wise and brace them. It's going to weigh a lot more than 800 lbs because you will be adding a lot of water.
__________________
Check out my pictures here:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving isn't for you.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting new 36" build deejayoh Getting Started 384 02-08-2014 06:00 PM
36" build in London, UK GeorgePalmer Brick Oven Photos 23 04-13-2012 11:48 AM
Near completion, Pompeii build Jed Brick Oven Photos 5 05-28-2008 09:48 PM
Considering build of Pompeii oven jet Pompeii Oven Construction 21 05-10-2008 12:14 AM
oven build with pictures brokencookie Brick Oven Photos 4 04-10-2008 11:42 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006/10 Forno Bravo, LLC