#11  
Old 10-10-2007, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

Yeah,

Just about the last page.
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

FYI guys! Uno is right on. With that mixture it is important to be able to adjust for your particilar working conditions to make it workable. It took a lot for me to get the hang of it. Some mortar recipes would increase the sand to 4 or 5 parts as well.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

Thanks guys I found it. Here is my thing with that mixture. Lime in mortar really only serves a workability function as in water retention to increase board life and stickiness. I don't see any need for it AND fire clay. Fire clay adds both these elements to mortar and while you can use SOME fire clay in place of lime for brick laying (never as full a replacement for lime) we have always used lime and never used it for heat applications. Interesting..

I'm not saying its is a bad mix just different and I would assume VERY VERY sticky. What we have always used is 6 sand 2 cement and 1 fire clay and this is more than sticky enough. My dad and I built my bakery oven with this mixture and I never had a problem. As a matter of fact when I dismantled the bakery oven (in use for 5 years) this summer I had to use a rotor hammer to get the chamber down and Id say about 70% of the brick broke in the field and not at the bond which to me was surprising. The other 30% were probably the ones I laid my father is a true master. A huge part of laying fire brick is to get the moisture in the mud and the brick just right. Although for the new oven I will use a true refractory mortar and this oven will serve double duty as my tomb because I am NOT taking another one down.

I remember a post now with that recipe being suggested by a furnace builder or something like that somewhere. It would be interesting to know the rational behind the lime addition.

Anyway Dave you are going to have to play with the mix to get it right to hold the brick and not slide off, I'm sure you will be just fine. And you can always use forms or sand there certainly is no shame whatsoever doing it this way.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

6 2 1

I wish I would of know this sooner............


Should I finish with this formula or continue with the one I have been using?

BTW. I hate the lime... Nasty stuff... I would love to avoid it!



Thanks guys!
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

Guy's

I've been working with the Forno receipt and find that it's a pretty good mix - granted it hasn't stood the test of fire yet The heat stop I was using had to be shipped (crazy expensive) and I find the two pretty similar. In fact, the Forno flavor allowed me to pull my shims quicker. The lime does add a workability factor, but I never seen that as an issue (until you clean the tools).

Les...
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

Id say defiantly stick with what you have been using. If you switch you may have different expansion issues and after all I assume many ovens have been built here with great results using that recipe.Your ok just play with the water content of the bricks and the mud. You should be able to get it so when you set the brick hold it for a short count and it should stay.

Putting a nice layer of sand on the hearth floor will catch any mortar..and what ever else falls..Im sure everyone here has had them fall at one time or another. Heck I did a firebox rebuild about a year ago and had some fall at first. I don't think I have built a fireplace in years, nobody wants them and you simply cannot beat the price of a prefab metal one..Im gonna build one here at the house because I just like the look of them and I cannot justify being a mason and not having a fireplace..I think its in the code of ethics somewhere..
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Laying down mortar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unofornaio View Post
A huge part of laying fire brick is to get the moisture in the mud and the brick just right. Although for the new oven I will use a true refractory mortar ...
I canít agree more! Iím using a pre-mixed refractory mortar, so all I can play with is the moisture content of the bricks. And it certainly makes a huge difference, not only to the rate of setup, but also to the plasticity, stickability and workability (all technical terms here!) of laying these things. And when youíre limited by a 2-3mm max thickness, if things arenít spot on, the mortar is dry before you even place the brick!

So far, Iíve found the best method is to lightly spray the brick bed, using a small spray bottle, quickly dunk a DRY brick into a pail of water Ė just in and out Ė and thinly butter all four sides (two on the bed and two on the brick being placed). This gives me enough time to quickly rub or tap the brick into position before it sets up, which is usually within a minute or two. While itís setting up, I have to clean up the inside face immediately, or risk having to scrape off dry mortar.

Iíve tried soaking the bricks, and they take days to go off thoroughly Ė I knocked one out once accidentally, and although dry around the perimeter of the mortar joint, it was like plasticine in the middle, and this was two full days after laying it! So every time I cut another course of tapers with the wet saw, I leave the bricks for at least two days to dry out. Too wet bricks also seem to cause the mortar to go powdery in time, which frankly scares me. Hopefully itís only the outside edge.

My brickie showed me how he does it, and he had a different approach. He didnít wet the bricks at all, but placed the mortar as he would a conventional brick wall Ė very thickly and just on the bed and the Ďbuttí face of the brick. Then he pounded hell out of it to reduce the mortar thickness to that required. Fine until some previously laid bricks started popping out due to the tapers! They have set up well though, and the mortar remained workable for far longer.

All very different from Daveís mortar, which sounds much simpler for the novice. But it still comes back to experimenting to find that Ďone best wayí.

I hope to have mastered the process by the last ring of the dome!

Cheers, Paul.
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