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BeanAnimal 03-26-2011 08:00 AM

Floor thickness and insulation
 
I have moved on from the basic dome design of my 42" project to the floor and hearth design.

I have read numerous threads about floor insulation and floor construction but have a few direct questions for those who cook both pizza and use retained heat for a day or three after a firing.


1) Does a 2.5" floor thickness have enough thermal mass, or would more mass be better to keep from having to recharge the floor during a pizza party, etc.

2) Will 4" of FB board placed directly on the concrete slab be enough insulation, or do I need to also add a layer of insulated concrete below the 4" of FB board?

dmun 03-26-2011 08:08 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
Four inches of refractory insulation board is more than enough. I got two and half inch boards, and my support slab stays cool during cooking.

If your principal interest is cooking pizza, there in no need for thermal mass greater than 2.5 inches. The only reason for thicker mass is if you are baking multiple batches of bread, as in a commercial bakery.

BeanAnimal 03-26-2011 08:34 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
Sounds good then. I will go with 4" of FB board directly on the slab.

From what I can gather from numerous threads then the standard 2.5" of floor and a well insulated 4.5" thick dome (with or without cladding) can keep heat and still be 200 or more degrees 2 or 3 days later. I think that is what we are aiming for (cooking with residual heat a day or two later).

Foundation questions are next, but I will reserve those for a new thread :)

texassourdough 03-26-2011 09:56 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
I have 4 inches of cement under my refractory hearth and about eight inches of insulated cement/vermiculite under that. That's probably overkill but if you really want to bake (or slow bake) days later or bake multiple batches of bread a bit of extra refractory both in the dome and floor would not hurt and will not drastically affect your heat up time. My other suggestion would be to be sure to have a heat break at the outside of the hearth slab for heat will migrate out if you don't insulate around the hearth.

Good luck!
Jay

BeanAnimal 03-26-2011 10:23 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
I had intended on pouring a 6" thick slab and then laying 4" of FB board on top of that and building the overn ON the board with the floor inside of the oven. The insulating blanket and vermiculite would cover the dome and fill the 4-6" gap between the exterior wall and the dome/exposed floor FB. Does that sound like enough of a thermal break?

Increasing the floor mass to 3.5" thick using standard bricks and splits may be an option. It appears that most of the floors are 2.5" thick and folks have good heat a few days later. You mention it should not drastically change the heatup time, but I am still a bit concerned to deviate from the common path with regard to the floor.

Derkp 03-26-2011 01:35 PM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
Hello,

My oven is a barrel type, modeled after Tscarborough's. I have 4" slab, 4"perlcrete, 4 1/2" heavy duty firebrick, the type used in steel mills, and I cook pizza on a sunday afternoon and then cook a turkey on tuesday. It holds the heat well. If I leave the coals in to completely go to ash then the bottom of the slab heats through and gets rather warm. A termocoupIe in between the firebrick and the perlite on top of the oven in the cladding, read into the high 400's the next day. I imagine if you cleaned all of the ash/coals out immediatly afer pizza the heat would be a little less.

No matter what your design, WFO's are pretty neat things.

Derk

Neil2 03-26-2011 05:19 PM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
"200 or more degrees 2 or 3 days later. "

Maybe not 3 days with that combination (2 1/2 inch on bottom, 4 1/2 inch dome, 4 inches insulation), but certainly in the order of 250 to 350 F up to 12 hours later. It will hold to 180 to 200 F at the 24 hour point.

We generally do pizza one day, some bread in the evening, and a slow roast the next day on the one firing.

There is always a trade off. More thermal mass allows you to cook longer but you will use more wood, take longer to heat up and, maybe, as a result use your oven less often. As Dmun noted, you have to think about how you plan to use your oven.

BeanAnimal 03-27-2011 06:32 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
To be honest, I am not sure how I plan to use the oven. I think part (most?) of the alure here is building it. Don't get me wrong, I really look forward to pizza and other food, but I like building things as much as using them.

My current line of reasoning:
I think if I were just going to cook pizza and leave it at that, I would just purchase a cast dome and be done with with. So I think I certainly like the idea of residual heat at least on the following day. That said, I don't want to burn a forest and wait 6 hours just to get to pizza temperature. So maybe the happy medium is a 3.5" floor and 4.5" dome with a bit of cladding and heaps of insulation?

texassourdough 03-27-2011 06:58 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
Hi BeanAnimal...

Based on comments from those with well made ovens using the FB plans they can hold heat well. There is, however a difference between holding temperature and holding enough heat to cook with. Example: imagine an oven with a 1/4 inch refractory lining and perfect insulation. You could probably heat the ceramic to 800 degrees in 15 minutes. And it would hold the temp. But put a cold turkey in it to roast and the temp would quickly fall for there simply wouldn't be enough heat held in the refractory to cook the bird.

That is an extreme example, but...highlights the reason I suggested extra refractory - so you have more mass at 300 degrees (and therefore more stored heat) when you put the roast in.

All that said, unless you plan to use it for roasting and baking a lot it isn't a very big deal. My response was based on your original emphasis on holding heat and cooking for up to two days,

Part of the good news is that almost every WFO works reasonably well (unless it is wet) once you learn your oven so... build one!
Jay

BeanAnimal 03-27-2011 07:59 AM

Re: Floor thickness and insulation
 
So given the extreme example and ignoring heat loss due to opening the door to put the bird in (and through the insulation), the only heat loss would be to the mass of the bird. Assuming it is "mostly" water, then 1 BTU per degree per pound :)

So unless I plan on baking loaf after loaf, or bird after bird, and keep the door closed after firing, then the FB plans should provide enough residual heat to slow cook something the next day. If not, a small fire will recharge enough for the baking temp. I suppose that is what I am looking for.

Sorry to make such a big deal about a topic that gets attention at least every other day around here, but I don't want to have buyers remorse after I settle on a plan.


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