#11  
Old 03-22-2013, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

If it has a thermal conductivity of 0.25 in metric it is not an insulator. They can call it what ever they want but the numbers don't lie.
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2013, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

Yes, sometimes you have to be careful of engineers suggesting things. They often operate under a different set of criteria when they get slightly out of their field. Insulating castable is a castable with insulating properties, it is not, for this application, considered to be insulation.

As for the wider than deep, my gut says no unless the ratio is very small. The dual level oven may work, but the levels should probably be reversed.
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  #13  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

It is a calcium-silicate cement with vermiculite as main ingredient, so it should be just a bit a better than vermicrete. It is used as insulating lining for Kiln and in the ceramic industry.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

Quote:
Originally Posted by giol View Post
It is used as insulating lining for Kiln and in the ceramic industry.
Why would they put an insulator at the hot face of a kiln?
Sort of defeats the whole purpose of a kiln I would imagine?
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Last edited by brickie in oz; 03-22-2013 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

It is used as lining outside the refractory lining. In imperial units this cement coverts from 0.19 w/m/k to 0.10 btu/hr/ft/F. What is a good number in imperial units to use as a guide?
A ceramic FB in the US (http://www.ktrefractories.com/Cerami...FiberBoard.htm) has 0.15w/m/k.

Last edited by giol; 03-22-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

Quote:
Originally Posted by giol View Post
It is used as lining outside the refractory lining.

Apologies for any language barrier.
If its used outside its a cladding.
If its used inside its a lining.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

Sounds like you are trying to plow up new ground. Why don't you want to use the standard vermicrete insulation. It was good enough for all of us. Many of us can debate the benefits of different materials with you. But we have had all those discussions previously. I don't think you are going to get much better insulator than vermicrete. My belief is that the air pockets in the vermiculite contribute more than anything to the insulation properties.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:05 AM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

I agree that the tried and tested is always the best but since i am building this in my balcony which is paved with white marble tile, i want to use the less meesier way possible. Additionaly the cost difference of the two ways is minimal here in Greece (portland cement costs 0.8 Euro /kg while the ready mixed 1.2 and vermiculite is expensive because it is imported). I am not at all experienced with cement mixing and stuff like that so i tend to trust the profeesional product more than my own capabilities.
By the way i am using vermicrete, it is the same materials (cement,vermiculite, water and san) except for the cement which is calcium aluminate type (like cement fondu and secar 71).

Last edited by giol; 03-23-2013 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

OK so we have 0.19 w/m/k let's not bother converting, I like to work in metric anyway.

Here are some common insulators:
Cal-Sil - 0.05 w/m/k
Fiberglass - 0.04 w/m/k
Mineral Wool - 0.04 w/m/k
Perlite - 0.031 w/m/k
Vermiculite - 0.058 w/m/k

Now let's look at some of the false insulators that tend to be used in Europe:
Tuff - 0.5-2.5 w/m/k
Dry Sand - 0.15-0.25 w/m/k

You can see there is a full order of magnitude between the two, and your product is clearly in the false insulator range.
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2013, 09:03 AM
Peasant
 
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Default Re: Before pulling the trigger, in need of criticism

Thank you all for the comments on the insulation. I hope i am not offending anyone by insisting on my point.
Here in Greece every other house has wood fired oven. I have two , one 60 years old cobb oven made by a widow (tradition) and still in use in my village house.A second one with firebrick ,clay and straw in my father house. It is a long tradition. There a lot of different styles but the guys that sell refractory (especially in the factory where i bought it) know exactly what it is and how it works. This factory is also the main producer of firebrick in Greece and they also sell pre-cast modular wfo to commercial pizzerias. The thermal conductivity of the product is very close to the ceramic fb the pompei oven document suggests. I add the calcium silicate AAC which is also insulating. For 50 euros i got the oven floor ready with commercial grade material.
Please send me some comments/proposals about the shape of the oven if you can.
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