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  #11  
Old 06-01-2013, 12:25 PM
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 123
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

chris,

thanks for the input. i guess i was typing (not very quick at this typing stuff) when your post came over. thanks for the input. i have learned a lot from everyone and still have LOTS more to learn. i'll even post my mistake pictures (embarrassingly though and hopefully not too many) so others can learn.

i remember reading a thread about 2 ways not to build the oven door. how nice of him to share his mistakes so we can all learn.
thanks again.
jon
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2013, 01:11 PM
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Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,869
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

Jon,

Gulf's oven is not called the Queen for nuttin, it is huge. Listen to Gulf he has been around the block.

On the fire brick floor, nothing wrong with 12 x12 in fact less seams to worry about. You can mix fire clay and fine sand in a 50/50 ratio for leveling. I made a slurry and used a notched trowel to level my first layer of insulation on the hearth. I did not have to use anything after that. Some people have used a dry version as well.

Keep sending the pics, that is one unique base.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2013, 02:12 PM
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So. Orange County, CA. USA
Posts: 1,156
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

Jon, if you decide to use something as a leveler be careful. If you're not very careful the insulating board will suck the moisture right out of the leveler before you have a chance to settle it in, and I mean you had better be lightning fast. I recommend using something dry rather than wet because you'd have time to settle it. The rigid insulation will be dead flat and unless your 12 by 12 bricks need something to make them flat, I'd just set them where you need them. In the end ash will fill the small gaps between the 12 by 12 tiles and they'll settle in just fine.

Best to you!

Chris
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2013, 02:23 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 123
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

thanks all. i've been following a bunch of you guys build and have to say they look great. i wonder how many of you are really professional masons but not letting on to us? sure look professional.

if it stops raining here, i may be able to start laying insulation and oven floor. tarps and plastic are close by just in case the weather man is incorrect.

???: i think i will go with dry sand mix and see how that works. is masonry sand or river sand the right thing to use ?


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  #15  
Old 06-01-2013, 04:54 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

Original quote by Kanoer54
Quote:
you and others are thinking what kind of nut wants to build a dome and then stick it in a concrete manhole structure
By no means Jon,
I do like you base. It is very innovative and I can see that it would be fun to work with for a final finish. I'm looking forward to see how you do this. Also, I can see that the manhole has saved you a lot of time, already.

Original quote by Kanoer54
Quote:
you mentioned in your post there are a couple more things. could you elaborate on these please!!!
You've cleared all of that up by your responses except, the thickness of (what I interpret) as a 6" concrete enclosure? I think that your base is fine for most anything (and more) than most of us would put on top of it. But, it is my concern, that if your footing is not resting on bedrock, you might not want to get it too top heavy. If you want a concrete enclosure, I think think 1 and 1/2" to 2" panels is enough. One leaning tower of Pizza is enough .

Original quote by UtahBeehiver
Quote:
Gulf's oven is ..., it is huge
Thank's Russell.

Jon, my oven is on the portly side. But, if someone can take the time to dissect it they will find lots of weight saving steps (done to off set some of my eccentricities) . Each one (I think) combined weight saving with more insulation.

I think that you now have enough interest from the forum to keep you out of trouble and especially, since that you have done a lot more research since you original sketches. Keep the pics and the intentions for each of your next steps coming.

From what I have seen so far, I am sure that your's, is going to be one an epic build .
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Last edited by Gulf; 06-01-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-02-2013, 10:01 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 123
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

gulf,

in doing my research a couple months ago i checked with the casting fabricator and totaled up the worse case weight of all of the brick and concrete components. i contacted civil engineer and structural engineer friends who confirmed my original intent of the round base, etc. soils are well drained and don't retain a lot of moisture here. i have 10" of clean limestone rock under the base which is just at our frost depth anyway.

if not successful, i may just have another leaning tower of pizza as you commented. during my original design sketches i really did think about making it lean and having all the arches and columns similar to the real leaning tower. i was thinking i could cast curved panels on the ground and them tilt them up, floor by floor but decided it may be too ambitious for my first build. if all else fails, i could plant ivy all over it to help disguise the tilt.

being a serf, i am likely to make some errors and bad judgement calls, so i do appreciate everyone's suggestions so i hopefully avoid them.

chris, thanks for your advise also.

will post some pics when the weather clears and i start the build.

jon
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  #17  
Old 06-02-2013, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

Jon,
Sorry for the leaning tower of pizza comment .
I think that you will be OK with your foundation. I just lean a little to the "cautious" side of that subject, not being familiar with other areas. Down here, "frost heave" is not a big problem. A lot of my early building/repairing/remodeling experiences revolved around foundations that should have been engineered for Yazoo Clay. It is very similar to frost heave but related to moisture. Yazoo clay expands during wet seasons and shrinks during extreme droughts. There are not many true skyscrapers in Mississippi. Actually, I can't think of even one . Though, I don't think that you have anything like that to deal with .

Again, I think that your base is fine. I just can't imagine why your enclosure has to be 6" thick concrete . I do understand that "personal preference" is what "makes a lot of us tick". I am very much like that. But, why does that extra weight and expense need to be there?? I'm just thinking that your "casting fabricator" could come up with something a little thinner/lighter/cheaper that would give you the look and strength that you want.

Just Sayin'
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  #18  
Old 06-03-2013, 06:10 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 123
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

gulf,
no apology needed for the comment. i appreciate your concern and comment regarding the leaning tower. i also appreciate a good sense of humor! seriously though, i actually spent days and days researching how to make a cylinder lean and still keep the oven floor level, but gave up after i realized the amount of calculations, special concrete forming and labor it would take. my initial design for the 'leaning tower' would have been about 10 feet tall x 4 foot diameter. quite a short squat leaning tower. would have been pretty comical though and quite a construction challenge. the actual leaning tower has a lot of columns (7 + bell tower if my memory serves me correctly) and arches which would have been WAY over my skill level with the special casting and arched details.

but back to your other concern. we have what we call 'gumbo' clay in our bottom lands around here. it is very expansive with the high clay content. our gumbo sounds like it has similar behavioral characteristics as your yazoo clay when it gets wet (swells) and drys (shrinks). it has been a big problem for some construction projects. one way we've corrected the expansive soils is with lime stabilization and for more sandy soils a process known as cement stabilization. fortunately for me, i am up out of the bottoms and have more well draining soils.

i did have extensive conversations with my manhole casting contractor about the wall thickness. i was really hoping to get something with thinner walls like you suggested. due to the IDOT (IL Dept of Transportation) government regulations and the standard ACI guidelines, reinforcing in concrete including manholes must have a minimum coverage. thus, with the reinforcing in the walls, there must be a minimum of 5-1/2" walls, so they just make their walls 6 inches thick. way overkill for what i need but that is what they manufacturer. i know i'll be missing out the fun and adventure of building the outer structure over the dome but i'll be able to finish the concrete manhole with something creative. my wife suggested ivy and giant decorative sheet metal lizards or geckos. a little bizarre but i'll keep an open mind.

keep the comments coming, because i will need all the help i can get and you guys are the experts.

jon
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  #19  
Old 06-03-2013, 06:21 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

Jon,
I am looking forward to watching your progress.

Quote:
My wife suggested ivy and giant decorative sheet metal lizards or geckos. a little bizarre but i'll keep an open mind.
Make sure that you keep some, if not all of her ideas in the decorative part of the build.; This is very, very, I say VERY important .
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 123
Default Re: 38" build in southern IL

gulf,
i read your reply out loud to my wife and we were rolling on the patio laughing. how true it is.....ain't nobody happy if the queen ain't happy. i am so looking forward to this build. she can hardly wait til it is done so she can cook, bake, dry fruits, etc.

it quit raining today...finallly. hope to lay the insulation and start brick work tommorrow,

already having a blast and haven't even started the brick yet!! ( can't figure out the smiley faces...but their there in spirit.)

thanks...jon
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