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  #41  
Old 04-17-2013, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Still trying to work out the opening and inner entry. I have looked at a number of builds and most have made arches. I noticed that in some builds the arch starts from the floor of the hearth and in others the sides are straight vertical and the arch begins at various heights. This hybrid approach seems to offer the advantage of allowing a larger opening and simplifying the initial levels of the dome (a benefit to a 1st time builder with no experience).

What are the disadvantages?
How high can the opening be kept straight before beginning the arch and still retain the benefits of the arch that Dave has noted?
Any other comments or recommended builds to look at.

Thanks, Bruce
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  #42  
Old 04-18-2013, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
so for the slow reply ...its being a long day at the sandpit.
Your interested in the strait sides with the arch at the top. Yep I can see why you have a lot more room at those top corners and after using my mates oven with a 1/2 circle arch, I agree. It would probably suit your use of an oven from a chair as well as anyone standing upright.
First, off go to my oven, I have made a mod to my oven entrance with that type of arch, if you look at the point where it transits from strait to the curve youll see a small cut brick. This is the weak point. The arch bears down on that brick and its holding mortar. Yes I'm aware of it and plan to strenghten it with another wall of brick along side it. I got some bricks for it and to put a 1/2 brick veneer over my whole dome last weekend. A long thought out plan coming to together ......slowly.
Of course the oven entrance itself will not reqiure the support as it will be support by the dome, only the outer arch will require the extra support on the sides
Check out "New 36 in build at Bunderberg" in the Introductions section, Brickie has included a link on Archs that could be a help.
Regards Dave
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  #43  
Old 04-18-2013, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Gudday Bruce
Ok theres a bit on archs. Now for flat entrances. You know the disadvantages and the fact that it is no easier to tie a dome into a flat entrance than an arch. So it comes down to tools, time and Tec knowhow.
Tools... Not everyone has the tools on hand to build an arch form etc ...it adds to the expense to buy them. And wastefull if its little used in the future. ( and some folk see it good excuse to buy more tools HaHa!
Time. As a simpler process ... No extra time building forms etc sometime best spend with friends and family.
Tec know... Not all of us have previous experience ... There's a hell of a lot of different processes involved in an building an oven cutting a few of them down just simplifies things.
Anyway Bruce your the man on the ground it's up to you to pick what suits.

Regards dave
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  #44  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Hi Dave,
Thanks for laying out the some of the issues. In terms of tools, I am pretty well set. I have a jig saw to cut plywood for the form and an older Felker Tilemaster saw. What else would I need? Experience is another story, as noted earlier I've never laid a brick prior to this project. Like most of my DIY endeavors, I suspect it will be about the time I finish that I will have acquired the skills I needed when I started. The brick I ordered did not come in today so I continued trying to work out the layout.

I made a cardboard cutout the size of the outer wall (45") and set it back 24" from the front edge. The red bricks in front represent a 12" shelf and the opening is 18" x 12".

My first thought was, "wow, the cooking surface sure looks a long way away." With the setback in the picture it is about 42" to the center of the oven. I hope to get some discussion about setback distances and whether the benefits of a wider shelf outweigh the added difficulty (if indeed it is more difficult) of having to use longer handled tools. Bruce
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  #45  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Bruce,

That is quite a reach, at this point of your build you can experiment by moving your template around. Take a broom stick and see how the distance works for you, not only for placing pizza, but moving coals and logs around. A lot of us never laid a brick until this WFO endeavor, I was one and certainly could not make a living with it , just be patient.
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  #46  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Russell,
Thanks for your joining in. Second point first, I probably haven't communicated this in my posts, but I am actually confident that I will be able to build a working oven. Might be false confidence, but it sure looks to me that as long as the dome supports itself and is insulated it will be functional. Still, I am hoping you and others in this community will share their hard earned expertise so that my list of things I would like to have done differently will be short. Looking at the setback that includes a 12" shelf made me wonder if the shelf was all that useful. The problem is that I won't know unless I build it and see if it makes sense. I put it into my initial plan because that seemed common in the builds on this site. As Dave keeps pointing out, this is my build and as you might guess from my stand, I may go my own way. At the same time, it was the feedback I received from my initial proposal (in retrospect not a good one) that led to a stand that I could build myself from my wheelchair and is still sufficiently solid.

Having said all that, I suspect my dome will be fairly standard. I plan to at least try tapering the bricks to keep the joints tight on the inner surface, but if this proves too hard I will go with the 1/2 brick and lots of mortar approach.

I skimmed your build, but couldn't tell the distance from the front of your shelf to the cooking surface. How useful has the front counter been and would you change your setback?

Right now, I am leaning toward reducing the setback to 15" from the front edge of the stand to the inner opening. This would likely place the outer arch only a few inches back from the front edge.

Again, thanks for the reply. I am fully convinced that this is one of the most consistently supportive communities on the web. Bruce
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  #47  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

In your last pic you have a steel lintel, dont use a steel lintel as it will twist and warp all over the place from the heat.
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  #48  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Thanks,
Actually, I had simply used it to mark the 12" height. However, I had thought the pompelli plans recommended angle iron for a rectangular entry and would have used it if i went that route. At this point I am planning to make an arch to span the opening. Any thoughts about how high the vertical sides should be? You seem to be one of the goto posters regarding arches and masonry. Bruce

Right now watching live reports regarding Boston bombing. Appears the suspects have been arrested, not official yet.
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  #49  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bec1208 View Post
Right now watching live reports regarding Boston bombing. Appears the suspects have been arrested, not official yet.
Side step...

Good news.
Some home grown nutter no doubt.
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  #50  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: 36" build in Tallahassee - AKA Bruce's Folly

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Originally Posted by Bec1208 View Post
Any thoughts about how high the vertical sides should be? You seem to be one of the goto posters regarding arches and masonry. Bruce
Mark out you arch on paper, cardboard, whatever.
The top of the arch need to be within the golden ration/mean 1.62%.
Your markings out of the arch will dictate the height of the springing point.

Heres a sample of what you need to do to mark out your arch.
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Last edited by brickie in oz; 04-19-2013 at 01:53 AM.
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