#11  
Old 07-29-2014, 11:31 AM
Serf
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4
Default Re: Cold fermintation

I am not trying to debate the merits of either method ( I use Long cold fermentation at home). I saw a dichotomy, after reading Peter's books, and wanted to solve it for my understanding and to expand my pizza horizons.
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2014, 11:55 AM
Tscarborough's Avatar
Il Pizzaiolo
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ausitn
Posts: 3,128
Default Re: Cold fermintation

I just explained the dichotomy. Cold fermentation is not practical for most restaurant settings, but is very practical in home settings.

Personally, I do cold ferment for the ability to have a large window of use (2 days out to a week or more).
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  #13  
Old 07-29-2014, 06:18 PM
GianniFocaccia's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Disneyland, CA
Posts: 1,508
Default Re: Cold fermintation

Quote:
Farmboy, I don't think you should worry to much about what the "great houses" use, it should be more of a personal preference
I agree. "Great" and "world-famous" are over-used, and as my grandfather once told me, its usually the newbies that refer to something as 'great' while the experienced veterans tell it like it really is.

The cool part is that you get to experiment to find out what you like. Presumably, your preferences will evolve as your understanding of processes and materials do. Sometimes you get to make what's popular with your family and friends, instead of what you like.


Quote:
Do you have a particular recipe including technique from that site you would recommend? Or possibly what you use for dough?
There are so many pizza recipes, here is what I did: I made a spreadsheet that allows me to track every facet of every pizza I've ever made. This way, I can evaluate each pie and tweak each recipe accordingly. So far, changes have been hit or miss, but mostly positive.

When I first started, I didn't know enough about my oven to make a decent Neapolitan pie, so I switched from Caputo 00 to King Arthur AP flour and making New York style pies, which the family likes much better. My camera broke, but below are some pics of early attempts.

Hopefully, I'm nowhere near where I'm gonna be in a year or so, but the pizzas I've made lately have turned out nicely. We had 25 or so of my daughter's college swim teammates over for a party a few weeks ago and every pie got devoured.

Here's what I track on my spreadsheet:

Date
Recipe
# of Pizzas
Flour
Yeast %
Hydration %
Salt%
Autolyse
# of S& F's
Interval
Bulk Rise
Temp
Final Rise
Dome temp
Floor Temp
Notes

Most of the variables revolve around the recipe (percentages of oil, sugar, yeast) and fermentation temps and times. I followed a recommendation of fermenting at 60F in my cooler, and the dough blew all over the place. (too much yeast for the process). What I do know is that dough allowed to ferment in the fridge for 3 days is the standard for best flavor.

Tscar (who makes top-notch-looking pies BTW) nailed it. Its a rare pizzaria that has enough walk-in space to cold-ferment dough for 3-days, so for them, room-temp fermentation is generally the rule. This is where a home pizzaiolo with a spare fridge and a WFO really rocks.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Cold fermintation-sourdough-pizza1.jpg   Cold fermintation-pepperoni.jpg   Cold fermintation-crumb.jpg  
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  #14  
Old 07-29-2014, 06:49 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
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Location: Ausitn
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Default Re: Cold fermintation

My pies are kind of ugly, but they taste pretty damn good.

Room temp rise (fermenting may be technically correct, but is misleading for the GP) is the preferred method, provided you are making a sourdough,have the ability to keep your doughs at 68-70 degrees, and have a pretty specific time frame for the use of the dough. The best doughs I have ever tasted are all done with this workflow. 2 are commercial, Pieous and Bufalina in Austin, and by a fair margin the best, TXCraig's garage in Houston.

So aside from the reason why pizza professionals use room temp dough at work and why they advise cold rise for home pizza (the dichotomy), You should use whichever method best fits your workflow and needs. There is no "best" there is only what works for you.
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  #15  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:33 PM
sclancy's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 93
Default Re: Cold fermintation

So my 1-2 day cold rise works perfectly. Days 3-4 the dough gets wet and falls. On days 3-4, When it warms and I stretch it, it is very very slack. 1-2 day old dough is perfect. Just the right spring but still able to be stretched thin. Doesn't gluten continue to build days 3-4? What am I missing?

Tscar: How do I modify the " no knead" recipe to use dough same day?? Can I just knead for another 10mins before balling and doing a second room temp rise??
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2014, 08:52 PM
Tscarborough's Avatar
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Location: Ausitn
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Default Re: Cold fermintation

I am not really comfortable in giving advice on making dough. I do it my way and it works, but in the past I have been accused of heresy for the way I do other things.

What I do is hand-mix small batches until they reach a degree of uniformity. I let them rise on the bench, 70-80 degrees, until they double, sometimes it is 45 minutes, sometimes 4 hours. I then stretch and fold 6 or 7 times, form, cut, and ball them. From there they are usable from the same day and are prime for 3 days, good for a week, and suitable for drunken kitchen oven pizza out to a couple 3 weeks.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2014, 08:44 AM
sclancy's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 93
Default Re: Cold fermintation

Tscar,

like it or not, your video and technique applied to the FB recipe is my go to....and I thank you for that.

I honestly have never tried to use "your" dough same day - I have always balled and refrigerated for at least 18hrs. I will try using same day and see what I get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
I am not really comfortable in giving advice on making dough. I do it my way and it works, but in the past I have been accused of heresy for the way I do other things.

What I do is hand-mix small batches until they reach a degree of uniformity. I let them rise on the bench, 70-80 degrees, until they double, sometimes it is 45 minutes, sometimes 4 hours. I then stretch and fold 6 or 7 times, form, cut, and ball them. From there they are usable from the same day and are prime for 3 days, good for a week, and suitable for drunken kitchen oven pizza out to a couple 3 weeks.
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