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  #91  
Old 02-22-2013, 01:37 AM
cobblerdave's Avatar
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Gudday Rosemary
A 2in re-enforced slab is to thin to protect the steel properly it needs to be at least 3 1/2 in thick. The re-enforced hebel should be strong enough if correctly supported underneath. A H shaped slab gives you 2 bays for wood stowage which is excellent for access ( trust me a c shape you'll never see the wood at the back). You back up the support in the bays of your H with steel lintels or angle iron.
Using hebel cal sil and pearlcrete seems a bit of an overkill. The hebel will supply you with a good insulation to start with. Protect the hebel with a layer of pearlcrete or cal sil to take the big heat. Remember Portland cement that the hebel is formed from will tend to break down over 330 C . It takes a big long firing for this heat to pass through to the hebel layer however. So a thin layer of cal sil or pearlcrete is your insurance. My own oven does not have this but survives because it has 75 mm of firebrick , it might be 500C inside but by the time this heat reaches the hebel layer it has dropped enough not to have an effect on the hebel.
Hope you have a copy of the Forno plans .... It's a bullet proof oven to build

Regards dave
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  #92  
Old 02-22-2013, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobblerdave View Post
Gudday Rosemary
A 2in re-enforced slab is to thin to protect the steel properly it needs to be at least 3 1/2 in thick. The re-enforced hebel should be strong enough if correctly supported underneath.
I was disappointed in the Hebel strength. The stuff I used was 75mm thick and reinforced with 4mm steel cast into the middle. This is pretty inadequate IMO. You can make a 50 mm concrete slab stronger. If you feel it's too thin for steel reinforcing then use fibres. Another alternative which I prefer is to cantilever the supporting slab so the span between supports is much shorter. As the centre of mass is not at the perimeter of the dome anyway this makes more sense.
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  #93  
Old 02-22-2013, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Thanks Guys for the info and advice.
I have settled on a stand plan that is a 'C' at the front with a crosswise 'H' behind. Steel lintels across all and a cantilevered top so most mass is above the block work of the stand. Good to know about the thickness of the concrete and the option of the needles rather than reo. I will be sticking with the Hebel, only cost me $20 from the Junction up at the tip.
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  #94  
Old 02-22-2013, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Hi rosemary

When you look at the photos of my build. You will notice that the base is based on a B frame at the rear and a C frame at the front. The blocks are positioned immediately under the oven circumference the middle steel lintel 7mm back to back angle iron is positioned under the inner arch.

You simply need to use the calsil board on top of the Hebel panel only. As Dave, Doug and Russell have stated in my own questions to them. Nothing else is required. The Hebel panel will also provide insulation in conjunction with the calsil

Cobbler Dave if I recall is using Hebel as his insulation layer on a concrete base. I feel a concrete base is unnecessary as long as the panels are well supported.

I have checked this out with a Hebel engineer.

Rosemary you are on the right track with your last post. I have not used a concrete base nor do I intend using vermicrete. But the Hebel panel needs to be supported. To hold oven weight.
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Last edited by oasiscdm; 02-22-2013 at 06:09 AM.
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  #95  
Old 02-22-2013, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Hi Colin.
What is the span between your supports under the Hebel? If you are using the 75mm thick Power Panels be careful. Hebel is about the third of the weight of structural concrete so expect a third of the strength. It's reinforcing is pretty light. 4 mm rod if I remember correctly. I hope you told the Hebel engineer how much weight will be sitting on top of the panels.it's fine under compression , but flexural strength is the worry.
Dave

Last edited by david s; 02-22-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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  #96  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Hi david

Thanks david for your concern. Just to clear up my base, it is built with 150mm thick Hebel blocks in the form

|--|--|
|--|--|
|-----|
|-----|

with the blocks with two hebel panels making an oven surface of 1500x1600. The oven is supported under its outer diameter by these blocks in the back half of the base. This part of the structure supports the centre of the oven. At the front i have placed two lintels one under the front inner arch this is 7mm steel angle iron welded back to back to form a T . I also have a steel lintel across front supporting the outer vent area and the face plate you can see in the pictures this is 4mm angle iron welded to form this shape LL .

So from back to front there are 4 major supports.

Hope this clears it up. I feel the panel it is very well supported and hence the oven.

Also i told the Hebel engineer it would be holding 2 tonne based on my calculations it will be a lot less than that.
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Last edited by oasiscdm; 02-22-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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  #97  
Old 02-22-2013, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Thanks for all the detailed discussion. Mine will I guess look like something like this, the blue bars are the lintels, the black are the block work. Still working on the dimensions. I think I need to make a template like Colin and some others have so I know where the weight is. The top will be cantilevered so the main weight is on the blocks and lintels.
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Last edited by SpottedFrog; 02-22-2013 at 09:14 PM. Reason: left out bits of info
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  #98  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Well done Colin and Rosemary,
Sounds like you both have it well planned.
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  #99  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

Thx David

I have included the photo that shows the supports. Note the extremities of the base fit the dome extremities exactly.

Rosemary looks like a good plan what size blocks i didnt catch if you were using besser or Hebel.

Storage i guess is in the T ?

Just want my brick saw so i can start
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Last edited by oasiscdm; 02-23-2013 at 12:24 AM.
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  #100  
Old 02-23-2013, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: new build in werribee

You could hide all kinds of things in those two sealed bays? A few refugees, a couple of dead bodies or a briefcase full of money.

Last edited by david s; 02-23-2013 at 05:34 AM.
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